this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2025

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Actually Infuriating

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Why does EU let Microsoft break Linux on dual-booting computers? Why let home robots sabotage enemy products in people's homes? (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by Tehdastehdas@lemmy.world to c/actually_infuriating@lemmy.world

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Every time Windows updates itself, my Linux disappears. Actually, it's just hidden, only the boot menu was overwritten. You need a computer maintenance technician to make a new boot menu. I use a USB stick with a live Linux with automatic boot repair tools.

Recently, Windows has become resistant to Boot Repair Disk. Now I have to open computer firmware by tapping "Esc" right after power-up, then select "Boot options", then "Linux".

EU must ban all US-made smart products for its own safety. All closed-source software and electronics that can be used for strategic manipulation and sabotage -- Google, Apple, Amazon, all of it.

We have functional, clunky open-source software that could easily be fitted for any purpose with the money we waste propping up foreign monopolies sabotaging us. Europe has taken a huge risk. I suspect bribery.

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[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 59 points 2 months ago (6 children)

FWIW dual booting from the same physical drive is never a good idea in my experience. Even Linux-Linux dual booting is just asking for problems when one of them updates the grub configs and messes it up for the other.

Save yourself some sanity and move your Windows install to a new drive.

[–] biokernel@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 2 months ago

and when one drive fails you can boot from the other drive and repair your system

[–] InFerNo@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

One if my laptops only has 1 bay for a drive unfortunately. Currently going through the motion OP describes. Updating Windows and repairing the bootloader. It's still MBR, not uefi, too.

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[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

That's actually why i don't auto-mount ~~/bin~~ /boot in linux. It only messes things up when it updates the kernel.

[–] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

As someone who just started using Linux regularly, this seems bonkers to me.

Unless you're building your own kernel and compiling apps from scratch, why would anything in /bin break?

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Sorry i meant /boot, on some systems it seems to link to the EFI partition, so when you have a dual-boot setup, updating the kernel breaks the other system's kernel or something.. I just checked and it seems to not be an issue on my current setup, as they aren't links to the EFI partition.

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[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub 20 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Safest thing to do is run windows only in a VM or container with Linux as the host OS and pass the hardware required in. Windows actually runs better this way and can't mess with your Linux install.

[–] Khanzarate@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

How does it run better?

I've avoided it specifically for performance reasons, this is new to me, for one program that WINE doesn't like.

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Linux manages disk access way better than Windows.

But anything that depends on CPU, memory, or IO lattency will get slower.

[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I've not actually benchmarked it. Although others have and I couldn't really tell you why but windows spends a lot less time and resources trying to manage itself when it's in a VM or container. It's just much snapier and even when passing in a GPU to play games it preforms well.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (4 children)

None of this has ever been my experience

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[–] ParetoOptimalDev@lemmy.today 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

If you aren't gaming, you don't care about performance past giving CPU/RAM enough resources to VM.

If you are multiplayer gaming and unwilling to give it up or be very tech savvy, VM isn't an option.

Well maybe, see: https://looking-glass.io/

If you single player game, you just need pcie passthrough to your VM.

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[–] xyz1195@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

"That's not how anything works" meme material right here.

How can literally anything run better on a vm compared to physical?

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[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I'm surprised that Windows overrides the UEFI partition at every boot. They should not be allowed to do this.

But also, i'm kinda surprised that Windows allows the wubi.exe Ubuntu installer to write to the UEFI boot menu.

I agree that better regulations need to be put in place. I too suspect bribery. How else would you explain that we're getting surveillance package instead of this?

[–] ober9000@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I mean Microsofts programming is also just shit. I remember installing Windows 7 back then. The computer had an SSD and a HDD in it with old files. I later removed the HDD and it wouldn't boot. Because even though I installed Windows on the SSD, it put the bootloader onto the HDD.

[–] kadup@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Windows still does that to this day. For some random reason, it will often create the EFI boot partition in a different drive than the one you're installing Windows to.

[–] Ashelyn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 months ago

Yeah... It's typically best to only connect the drive you want the OS on, then add the other(s) post install

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[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 12 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Win11 bricked my linux install usb. Microsoft also colluded with intel to make intel cpus appear to perform better by sandbagging AMD cpus.

Bill Gates may be a nice guy but his company has become trash.

[–] heavydust@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

has become trash

It was always trash and always fucked with Linux and other OS. The only solution is no Windows.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Sad thing is, the NT kernel itself is POSIX and compatible and all. But the UI on top doesn't support half of it.

Edit: it was POSIX and OS/2 compatibel, then they removed it.

[–] renzev@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

The funny thing is, as far as I can tell, the only reason why NT has a posix subsystem is to comply with some weird government regulation.

From Wikipedia:

The NT POSIX subsystem was included with the first versions of Windows NT because of 1980s US federal government requirements listed in Federal Information Processing Standard (FIPS) 151-2. Briefly, these documents required that certain types of government purchases be POSIX-compliant, so that if Windows NT had not included this subsystem, computing systems based on it would not have been eligible for some government contracts.

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[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 months ago

Bill Gates may have become a nice guy but his company is trash.

Better, no?

[–] MushroomsEverywhere@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

I'm just gonna put this here for no reason. https://youtu.be/lFS9DFXtj1M

[–] Lazycog@sopuli.xyz 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

I agree with your post but I must ask - is that King Charles taking the ~~wheel~~ UEFI Boot partition?

Thanks for the confirmations. It indeed seems to be King Charles taking the UEFI Boot Partition. ~~Microsoft~~ Monarchy at it again taking what belongs to the people.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

That it is, old Chucky Sausagefingers

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[–] RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I use a Dualboot with Windows 10 (there are unfortunately some very few games I couldn't get to run with Linux, otherwise I had removed Windows a long time ago) but I never ran into this problem. Someone here wrote about efimgr, could be that I installed that by accident and this helps. I just followed some random tutorial back then.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 4 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Did you try the tinkering recommendations on protonDB? They're great. Might be able to help you if you hadn't tried them.

[–] RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yes, I did. Most of the time that works, but there is one game which I absolutely love, Space Engineers, and I could not get that to work with any amount of tinkering.

Edit: I just tried it again. Installation of Proton GE was necessary and had some hiccups. Used command line values from ProtonDB. Space Engineers kind of works now. Performance isn't great though, some sudden FPS drops.

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[–] yessikg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Windows 11 gets worse with every update, might start running it in a VM

[–] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 months ago

On my laptop I need windows for an OBDII dongle, luckily the software works fine in a VM.

[–] secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

They are doing everyone a favor. Why woukd you want that shit on your computer at all?

Or if you simply must use Windows, why not use KVM?

This seems like Windows developers doing everyone a solid: "You sure you want this shit to have root access over everyrhing?" they are asking.

[–] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

The fix for this is pretty simple. Uninstall Windows and never look back. I haven't used any Microsoft products in years now.

[–] olafurp@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Worked for me

[–] vala@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

This meme got me. Really do be that way.

[–] ThePantser@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

EU must ban all US-made smart products for its own safety. All closed-source software and electronics that can be used for strategic manipulation and sabotage -- Google, Apple, Amazon, all of it.

Well this solves your first issue, Microsoft is US based. So just uninstall windows.

[–] dust_accelerator@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 2 months ago

"Computers are like air conditioning.

They become useless when you open windows"

some Finnish dude

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

what is windows?

[–] redxef@feddit.org 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

efibootmgr is your friend. Boot into linux and use it to set the boot records as you want, in the order that you want them.

Also, I have heard from a bunch of people, that this can be mitigated by having separate EFI partitions for Linux and Windows. That means one EFI partition per physical drive. You can go as far as having the EFI partition on different media than the Linux install.

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[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I got do pissed one day that I figured out a good work around. Get a second drive just big enough for Linux and a third just big enough for windows. Then just remove windows and Linux from your big "must be safe" drive. Now install Linux on your Linux drive and Windows on your windows drive. Next, go to Fstab on Linux and Mount your big drive as either home for all users or a single user's home. Similarly go to Windows and mount the Linux home drive. You'll probably need to install drivers to even see the thing. I don't mix my Linux home. Instead I have a small drive for windows to fuck up shit into (which is what it does). Finally use the Linux bootloader and tell Windows to stay in its fucking place or shut the fuck up. It works.

[–] ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

As sad as that sounds in terms of maintenance and work for the average person,it checks out.

As someone that learned this the hard way in the 2000s with no other family computer backup, with some technical skills, this is a small slip up from Microsoft.

Instead of installing Linux in my computer and maintaining some un-maintainable windows copy on my dads computer, I’ll just install Linux mint or similar on his computer and tell him to click the big Firefox icon on the desktop as usual.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

I have my pc with linux only. Works like a charm.

Then I have my winbox for stuff that doesn't run on linux.

I won't mix those two together ever.

[–] HornedMeatBeast@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

I run Windows 10 on one NVME drive and Linux on a different one, but whenever I reinstall Windows it completely boffs my Linux installation.

If I reinstall Linux then my Windows installation is gone.

Took me a while but it seems that Windows is using my Linux NVME for its boot partition and so far the only way I've been able to avoid this is to unplug my Linux drive when reinstalling Windows.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I haven't been using Linux that long, but it hasn't happened to me in the six months I've been dual booting 🤔

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[–] Internetexplorer@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

This is anti competitive behaviour. It's kind of criminal

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 2 points 2 months ago

Even when single booting efi is usually the thing making it sorta annoying. Take that out and the install is super smooth.

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