this post was submitted on 09 Apr 2025
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Fuck AI

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[–] [email protected] 95 points 4 days ago (5 children)

I'm more surprised that people still use Google search at all after the years of enshittification — first the SEO crap, then "personalized search" bubbles, and finally the "AI" idiocy. Even shouting questions down a wishing well seems more productive at this point.

[–] [email protected] 108 points 4 days ago (12 children)

Not to sound confrontational, but you're way too focused on your - likely rather advanced - usage.

90% of people search for very simple stuff. They want to know the weather or want to know about that new movie they don't quite remember the name of. And for that use case, Google is perfectly serviceable. And since people are used to it, for example by it being the default on most platforms, they use it.

A lot of market leaders are objectively a bad choice, but they're a known brand. Coca cola, McDonald's, Oracle, etc.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I don't think you sound confrontational, but neither do I consider my internet searching particularly advanced. A lot of my searches are exactly what you describe, and a lot is trying to find a good research rabbit hole to go down. Call me curious.

I'm just sceptical, primarily of Google Search's inroads into surveillance monetisation and effective monopoly. For the same reasons I am as critical of the other "market leaders" you mention; I don't consider the ability to inspire brand loyalty in millions of consumers to sell crap products a quality 🤷

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I would honestly consider anyone that uses Lemmy or the Fediverse to be more advanced than the average user.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

On average maybe, but no individual is average and Lenny is growing.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 days ago (11 children)

Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, etc all suffer the same problems. I’d love to hear other alternatives (and I don’t mean alternatives like searx that is little more than lipstick on a pig and proxies search results from said engines).

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 days ago (1 children)

DuckDuckGo is just Bing wearing a duck hat

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

And yet it works better than Bing somehow.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago

It actually doesn't.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago (2 children)

There's nothing perfect. I use Kagi which uses many other indexes including Google, but with a focus on "small web" results and no ads or mandatory AI nonsense.

...but it costs money.

Well worth it in my opinion. My results have been better than Google for me, and I've been using it for like a year now. Highly recommend.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago

I learned about kagi when I got here on Lemmy and I've been using it since. Sucks that it costs money but they're not making money elsewhere, that i know of, so it can't just be a loss leader and free.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago

Thanks! I’ll give it a try.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago (3 children)

How is DuckDuckGo shitty? It suits me fine.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Here are my gripes:

  1. Uses Bing for a backend
  2. Too many ads
  3. Tries to be too much like Google
  4. Continuous attempts to force feed me AI
[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Ah yes, I have to admit the constant AI shilling does make me want to look elsewhere. I also didn't know that it's basically askjeeves but for B‽ng, lol

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That's not the word I would use but yeah, it's basically a frontend for Bing. And what's especially annoying is that it serves you links to unpaywalled news that's behind an MSN paywall.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

Thanks for that because I do feel like, thinking back to earlier today it wasn't giving me the video result I was looking for when searching for "Chinese tiktok make America great again"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

shoves results about completely different contexts of the words, most noticeable when trying to look up game mechanics which share names with IRL phenomenon.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

I'm starting to be convinced that it really is being enshittified almost daily lol

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

well there’s european based search engines like marginalia-search.com (but it mainly uses keywords, but has search filters at the bottom of the search result) and stract.com (which is in beta), I’d like to see if there’s more tho

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

I daily DDG but !g bang out to Google 80% of the time

Hit the back button once this month though - DDG was better than Google!!!

Has only happened twice I’ve noticed in a year!

DDG, pls use my data to be less terribly terrible (and stop rearranging results, as reported years ago)

PS: will get Kagi once I find a job cuz too lazy or something to get into SearXNG properly like I should. And Mullvad’s got Leta btw which like bundles searches for privacy

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

It's like the fucking 90s all over again but for completely different reasons.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Google supports searching "specific phrases", -excluding_words, +ensuring_keywords, and whatever * is. I havent found any other indexers that allow me to make use of searches with that level of detail, which is often the only way you can find specific things these days.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago

Duckduckgo does plenty with its advanced search operators, which are pretty similar to Google's. * is a wildcard, meaning if you were to search c*y, results word return something including a sequence beginning with 'c' and ending with 'y', but having any sequence of characters in between them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

Pretty sure Yandex at least allows for all of those search operators. As far as meta search engines, basically anything that uses google's results like Startpage will also likely support them.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago

Left out shadow banning raw footages on YT while front page promoting the same footage with heavy edits and narration that lied about what happened ('see no resisting'). -Leading to riots, increased racism, civil unrest, anti-cop sentiment, innocent lives, jobs, and property lost, etc. All to distract us from a racist genocide they support.

Yandex is the only search I'm aware of that passes tests (using verifiable facts) on the subject. -Grok the only AI.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Is Kagi still good? If not, what engine should I use?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago (2 children)

So, this is not a proper answer to your question. (The closest I'd give there, personally, is DDG, Qwant or Ecosia, all with their own caveats). But, I've been evangelizing a bit in favour of helping Mwmbl develop further.

Basically, it is an attempt to do for search engines what Wikipedia did for encyclopedic knowledge. It's still basically just a dream with an interface that's experimental and a search index still being built, currently seemingly bottlenecked by available (monetary) resources.

Oh, and a matrix community, where the actual community work seems to be happening.

But even though it's an infant with not that much more than a dream at this moment - I think their project shows promise, in audacity to challenge search engine giants alone, if nothing else. Currently, I am using it as my go to "first search" search engine, helping with curating results if possible (although, truth be told, in the past weeks most searches did not give anything useful at all). I also have the index building web crawling script running on the same server as my Fediverse instances - but there is also a firefox extension for more casual volunteer crawling without a cli script.

I can't sell this as a "proper" search engine, but still, am happy in evangelising it to anyone interested in supporting what tries to become a proper, open search engine not just on FOSS software, but FOSS principles.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

DDG is just Bing under the hood.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago

Indeed, which is why I couldn't recommend it without caveats and I at least don't know of a search engine I could recommend without caveats at all.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago

Not the response I wanted, but probably the one I need. DDG has been disappointing, even compared to Google, but you've given me a lot of great options. Thank you.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Isn't StartPage just Google's results, but less personalized?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago

I believe it uses a combo of bing and google with anonymizers, yes. I've just started poking around there due to waterfox mobile using it by default.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago

Thanks! I'll give it a try.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yeah kagi is still good. I've been using it for a while and am very happy.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Kagi is great if you have the change to spare.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

Probably off topic, but now I'm imagining myself shaking a cup of change at passers by.

"Spare some change to help an old man get ad-free search results?"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

10 per month, 14 in a duo deal

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Thanks! A bit steep but probably worth it in the end. Do you know if you can set it as the default search in Firefox?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

Not sure, I'm still trying to convince SO to get a duo.