this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2025
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Fedigrow

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To discuss how to grow and manage communities / magazines on Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed and Sublinks

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[–] xye@lemm.ee 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I still have no idea how Lemmy really works, and I had to sign up for this instance - I don’t know, I don’t see a platform growing on that. But maybe that’s the point. I’m trying to engage though! The Voyager app’s “import sub” feature from Reddit is brilliant.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 month ago

Welcome here! Feel free if you have any questions

[–] JohnnyEnzyme@lemm.ee 4 points 1 month ago

This was already touched on earlier, but I wanted to add on a bit:

The idea comes from how Reddit handles it (MultiReddits) but from my experience it's a feature not many people made use of, and it sounds like a pain to have to constantly create and manage new multi-communities to group together duplicate communities. This shouldn't be a task that users have to manually do.

This is a pretty bad or maybe just naive take that IMO doesn't sum things in a productive way upon Multi-Reddits. That is-- 1) it arguably doesn't matter a bit how many people make use of it, as each person's MR is going to be a custom affair, and it works at the individual user level anyway, 2) on the contrary, it's no trouble at all to build your MR's either quickly or painstakingly, and you can spread that effort across weeks, months and even years. In the end, I find MR's fantastically useful as super-custom feeds that you can use to stay focused on a tight range of topics.

Unfortunately, these kinds of half-baked conclusions tend to suggest to me that OP doesn't have a whole lot of familiarity with either platform at this time. That said, there's a lot of interesting ideas in the article, it's just a little disappointing in various places.

[–] small44@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Custom feeds grouping similar communities

[–] threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

That was addressed in the article under Proposal 2:

it's a feature not many people made use of, and it sounds like a pain to have to constantly create and manage new multi-communities to group together duplicate communities. This shouldn't be a task that users have to manually do.

[–] GorGor@startrek.website 1 points 1 month ago

Personally I think proposal 2 and 3 should happen concurrently. Using the example in the post I would setup a custom feed (that can hopefully consolidate cross posts) for breakfast. I would put pancakes@a.com which subscribes to pancakemasters@b.com I can also add pancakeart@a.com and waffles@a.com. so when someone posts about the best homemade peanut butter syrup recipe that is cross posted to my pancake and waffle communities, I don't get 4 posts about it, I can see it once and choose where to reply (pancakes obviously, I'm a waffle purist).

Community interlinking/subscription fixes a slightly different problem than custom feeds IMO. It's a really good idea, but I would personally still want custom feeds (with the ability to handle crossposts in a customizable way).

[–] small44@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It shouldn't be difficult to group some community automatically then users can edit it if they want

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago (3 children)

If they are similar, why not consolidate?

[–] Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 month ago

Better to not have to start over 100% if the main community is on a server that randomly disappears forever or turns sour and gets defederated.

[–] small44@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Because each instance and community had it's own rules. With custom feeds user can choose with communities he want to consolidate and separate them again if he want

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] small44@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

!movies@lemmy.world allows shitposts/memes. It's a big deal to some people like me

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] small44@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Ok my mistake but that is just one example. They may exists some two similar community with different rules. I constantly read people opinions on the fediverse selling point was about it being censorship resistant because you can switch to another instance

[–] threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

similar community with different rules.

In those cases, the communities should not consolidate, and would not "follow each other" under Proposal 3.

[–] small44@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

So the solution may only reduce the duplications but not fix it completely. A lot of communities are already dead with no active admins

[–] BroBot9000@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Wouldn’t that go against decentralization?

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Decentralization is being able to access the same content from different instances.

Duplicating communities is the opposite: now people can't see the same content, they have to follow all the similar communities

[–] Kichae@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

they have to follow all the similar communities

See, this compulsion needs to be killed off. Because no, they absolutely do not have to.

[–] threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If a user wants to see all the activity on a given topic, they very much do have to.

[–] Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Never thought about communities following communities. It actually makes a lot of sense and would solve the fragmentation issue in an elegant and "democratic" way.

[–] small44@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If admins really bother doing it. A lot of communities are already dead with no active admins to follow others

[–] Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (6 children)

This use case seems to be more for situations when you do have 2 more relatively active communities (with one being smaller).

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[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

IDK, man. It's not that hard to just check a few of the communities and see which ones are active, and then post to those ones. And the benefit you get, for asking people to take literally a couple of minutes of effort to sort out how to get involved with some particular topic, is pretty significant.

I'm not trying to say not to make good solutions to it, but also, trying to make everything maximally easy carries a significant down side, in that it attracts people who want to put minimal effort into everything (including their posts and their interactions with others once they've arrived on the network.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJpZjg8GuA

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There are only so many of us posting here.

The day we get 10 different people posting about quite popular topics like movies, then sure. But having the current split while there are 5 people posting for the entire platform seems counterproductive.

Another example I have is !privacy@lemmy.dbzer0.com and !privacy@programming.dev. Both communities have similar rules, instances are similar, everything is similar.

There is one poster there that seems to prefer the programming.dev one, so I have to crosspost everything they post to the dbzer0 one so that people subbed to that one don't miiss anything.

!movies@lemmy.world is a bit similar. It's mostly a one-person show (rough estimation, 80% of the posts are one person), but they wouldn't move to !movies@lemm.ee, while we have discussion posts, active mods, everything.

So sure, it's not that hard, but it doesn't mean that people will do it.

[–] Kichae@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It sounds like community pruning is the better solution here. Users don't need to find dead remote communities in their search results. If there are multiple active communities, that's not an issue, and there's no real reason to homogenize them behind lizard brain FOMO. If there's one active community and 6 dead ones, there's no reason for users to find any of the dead ones.

Forcibly merging communities that exist on completely different websites just because they run the same, or even just similar, software continues to scream "I want centralization".

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Forcibly merging communities that exist on completely different websites just because they run the same, or even just similar, software continues to scream “I want centralization

No, it's just consolidation of activity to a sustainable level.

Consolidation happened in the past

Those communities have no active counterpart, are they a threat to decentralization?

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[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Duplicates are a minor issue. That said, solution #2 (multi-comms) is considerably better than #3 (comms following comms).

The problems with #3 are:

  • Topics are almost never as discrete as the author pretends them to be. Often they overlap, but only partially.
  • Different comms have different rules, and in this situation rule enforcement becomes a mess.

There's no good solution for that. On the other hand, the problems the author associates with #2 are easy to solve, if users are allowed to share their multi-comms with each other as links:

  • a new user might not know which comms to follow, but they can simply copy a multi-comm from someone who does
  • good multi-comms are organically shared by users back and forth

Additionally, multi-comms address the root issue. The root issue is not that you got duplicate communities; it's that communities in general, even without duplicates, are hard to discover. Also note that the root issue is not exclusive to federated platforms, it pops up in Reddit too; it's a consequence of users being able to create comms by themselves.

About #1 (merging communities): to a certain extent users already do this. Nothing stops you from locking [!pancakes@a.com](/c/pancakes@a.com) with a pinned thread like "go to [!pancakes@b.com](/c/pancakes@b.com)".


This is a minor part of the text, but I feel in the mood to address it:

I post once to gauge interest then never post again because I got choice paralysis

The same users who get "choice paralysis" from deciding where to post are, typically, the ones who: can't be arsed to check rules before posting, can't be arsed to understand what someone else said before screeching, comment idiotic single-liners that add nothing but noise, whine "wah, TL;DR!" at anything with 100+ chars... because all those things backtrack to the same mindset: "thinking is too hard lol. I'm entitled to speak my empty mind, without thinking if I'm contributing or not lmao."

Is this really the sort of new user that we old users want to welcome here? Growth is important, but unrestricted growth regardless of cost is cancer.

[–] trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

Topics are almost never as discrete as the author pretends them to be. Often they overlap, but only partially.

Maybe I am not fully understanding your point here but from my point of view this is just not true?

A lot of the traffic is going to be on very general topics like "memes" or "technology" where posts are going to fit pretty much every other similar community.

Plus, in this case whoever has the authorities to follow communities can decide if the posts fit, so you're not losing anything if posts from a more specific community like "wholesome memes" end up showing up in a more general "memes" community.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)

The same users who get “choice paralysis” from deciding where to post are, typically, the ones who

I'm not so sure. I sometimes have choice paralysis again on a topic I'm not familiar with, and I'm sure quite a lot of other people do as well

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[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

The issue of multiple communities is the same as reddit. Lemmy lacks the volume of users for the level of niches people are sometimes interested in. A post about pancakes does not need a specialized niche on a platform with limited total active users.

The regular daily users on Lemmy are likely not using subscription feeds very much if at all. Those that are less regular are likely using these features more, but they are far less likely to discover new communities.

In my opinion, there is a disconnect with people that expect Lemmy to mirror other platforms 1:1 or nearly. This perspective is lacking an understanding of the scale of the user base. Building hyper niche communities and expecting them to grow organically out of a vacuum is a fallacy. Communities must grow as branches of a tree where they are born out of a strong base community.

This is where bad moderation is a massive problem. We need loosely defined, liberally moderated, strong general communities first. These must have minimal rules and mostly passive moderation so that you know c/food is a safe place to post anything about your pancakes even if it is a pancake with tomato sauce, cheese, pineapple, and ham. You should know that c/food is a place where even your odd pancake will get some love and motivate you to share whatever heinous pastry topping atrocity you make in the asylum kitchen next week. /s

Bad mods that are overactive and largely narcissistic are in my opinion the largest problem on Lemmy. There is nothing hard about being a mod. The community does all of the real work of flagging issues because the community ultimately is all that matters. The rules are guidelines. Flags need to be handled with care and depth. Just because someone flags something that does not mean they are correct. I've flagged some stuff that was poorly explained and ineffective, where only admin could have seen what I was talking about. I've also seen a few where the person flagging is the underlying problem. There is certainly need to weed out bigots and I'm not for harming anyone. There are places where heavy moderation is important and needed, but that kind of mindset bleeds into the periphery too much here IMO.

As a user, I don't want authoritarian stupidity and narcissistic nonsense. I like having options for posting in other parallel communities when I see some community has a dozen pedantic rules. I will just post in the more obscure place that is not so narcissistic and anti community in the big picture perspective.

While I appreciate having those obscure options, I think it is a MAJOR fallacy to allow narcissistic mods to continue in any community but especially large and high participation communities. Mods do not matter. No one has ever made a post or comment because they checked who the mods are and used that information as a reason for posting or commenting. They post because of the way the place intuitively resonates, if it seems like a safe place, and because of the social democratic participation within the space. The only community that can be owned by a mod is the one where the mod is the only person that has ever posted. If you do not agree with this, you are ultimately a fascist authoritarian, whether you can see and acknowledge that is not my problem. Communities are a de facto democracy when multiple users post within them. The mod does not own these users, their posts, or the comments. The mod is only a custodian; a janitor. The mod comes last. The mod is a servant, not a leader. Anyone making forced posts is doing more harm than good. Some people are really great at finding good content and posting regularly. This role is not tied to the implications and responsibilities of being a mod. This convolution of participation and moderation is the primary issue at the largest scale of abstraction that goes unaddressed in the link aggregation platform format and remains outside of collective awareness. The convolution of the mod role in abstract, masks emotional investment and fixation of narcissists, and that leads to harmful actions towards well intentioned users and purging of any difference in opinion that evokes a negative emotion from an underlying authoritarian or egomaniacal person. The resultant actions cull true diversity of perspectives and conversational depth in an extremest like feedback loop. When users participate in good faith and receive mob like negativity, it is bad for Lemmy growth. However, when good faith participation results in mod actions it causes disenfranchisement on another level and often leads to short or long term migration off of the platform.

A moderator should have a better ethical foundation. We are all humans. We are all often wrong, or misunderstood. Still, in these instances, as a human you have a right to exist. We all have bad days or overreact with our emotions at times. Yet still, you have a right to exist. Some of us are compromised in various ways that may require a measure of empathy kindness and understanding that the average person in the community is not capable of understanding by default due to outlier circumstance. The person may be depressed, abused, in isolation, or neurodivergent in various ways. These are especially vulnerable to harm from a narcissistic mod. In some of these cases, disenfranchisement from negative interaction may directly contribute to real world harm and even death through indirect means. For this reason, all moderator actions MUST be considered harmful by default. Enforcing opinion, pedantism, and all unnecessary actions against a well intentioned user are reckless narcissism without the abstract big picture understanding of what is best for the real humans that the actions impact. Ignoring these potential edge cases is authoritarian incompetence and shows the person lacks the ethical foundation required to be fair and just, acting in the best interest of the community.

The issue of poor moderation through de facto authoritarianism grossly contradicting democratic participation of all users, is the primary issue of all link aggregators that goes unaddressed.

The biggest issue for Lemmy at the moment is instances that do not update to the latest version of Lemmy. If devs are hamstrung from fixing issues in new revisions, the entire platform and discussion of growth is mute. When the largest instance on Lemmy (LW) is not on the latest version of Lemmy, or the devs fail to ensure the stability required, progress is halted and complaints are useless negativity with no potential for change.

[–] PriorityMotif@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

I made a whole instance just for the dull community

!dullsters@dullsters.net

I also mod !dull_mens_club@lemmy.world

I make content to help the communities grow, it's hard not to participate when you tend to check those communities frequently. I also try not to participate too much because I realize that it's not MY community. I'm more interested in the unique culture they develop. I have rarely had to take moderation actions, it's really not something I like doing. I never want to take adverse actions against someone because of what they do outside of the community. Of course all of that would be very undull and therefore go against the rules and principles of the communities.

You can post about pancakes in either one if you want, it would probably be a big hit.

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Fully agree with solution three, federated communities is the way. Solution two is just dumb and is basically just the subbed feed

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

i literally just want it to work like it does on matrix: a room (community in this instance) is an independent thing that exists on all servers with users participating in it, and then each server can also assign aliases to the rooms (communities) like how we assign domain names to IP addresses, of which the room (community) admins can set one to be the main alias which is generally displayed in UIs.

so a community called "bagels stacked on dogs" could have aliases like #bagelsondogs:lemmy.chat, #bageldogs:lemmy.chat, #bagelsondogs:discuss.dogchat.com, #bagelson:dogs.net, etc etc and the community admins would of course want to set #bagelson:dogs.net to be the main way to reference the community.

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

How would modding work on that? I'm not sure I fully understand.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

it works exactly like it does now, afaik

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So it’s essentially federated communities?

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 month ago

i'm pretty sure communities are federated right now, it's just that they only have a single ID which can never change. I think the way acitivitypub works it's basically just posting to different "topics" under the hood?

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