Wonder how much of it is religion showing its true colors and people realizing it's about control and money, not about being a good person.
this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2025
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As a person who does not need to be afraid of a Sky Daddy in order to be nice to people, I take it as a personal fucking insult when religious people even suggest their credulity gives them some kind of moral edge.
That, and the reason it's happening to a larger extent in the US than elsewhere is that the US is pretty much the only place where the prosperity gospel has any significance.
You assume many Americans aren't considering money itself a form of god and therefore that having vast wealth is therefore virtue
god is dead, we killed it thousands of years ago and put the stock/financial markets in their place
Great to hear.
Until we find a guy flying in space and a shit ton of previously dead people with him...look us all in the eye from miles and miles away. They're there looking at putin murdering innocent kids. Yup, that's definitely real.
I dunno, man.
MAGA is a religion and that fucking poison has taken hold of The Stupids pretty aggressively.
MAGA is a religion
You are nearly there. The decline of religion is replaced by political ideology. Religion has traditionally provided community and a sense of belonging and purpose. Since the advent of scientific revolution, religion has been steadily been declining. Coupled that with the growing individualism, since the promulgation of liberalism, and we have people feeling alienated and purposeless. The scientific revolution and individualist priorities atomised what was once communities and now there are only individuals left to fend for themselves. These vulnerable individuals are easy prey for demagogues who promise to bring back that sense of belonging and togetherness. It is not a coincidence that many rural areas are MAGA and religion is still alive and well. And what's the main characteristic of rural countries? Its loneliness. Hannah Arendt made an insightful conclusion that loneliness is a precursor to totalitarianism.
The extremely liberal and individualistic values that happened in 19th century giving rise to collectivist totalitarianism is repeating again and we haven't learned. Even a lot of Lemmy users don't get this and scoff at the "deplorables", wondering why the poor voted for Trump. He offered a sense of belonging to the poor and alienated, which both centrist Democrats and Republicans abandoned long ago.
It’s you that is nearly there. Your attempt to blame liberalism doesn’t resonate and surely does not seem to have a historical precedent.
The old historical meaning and value of liberalism is emphasis on individuality and private property. Those two come part and parcel together. It is no coincidence that socialism developed as a collectivist response to liberalism. Many people think socialism is only on economic level but socialism is, well, also social. Socialism tries to go back to collectivism; where group well-being is more important than individual. Think about it, why do the slogans "1% vs 99%" and "for the many, not the few" are leftist while centrists shun it? Other ideologies also tried to claim collectivism, namely communism and fascism. These ideologies are anti-liberal in the sense that they are against individualism. Never mind some of the collectivist ideologies are not democratic but that requires another discussion. In any case, you will notice socialists, communists and fascists often use "we" in their rhetoric more than the liberals and centrists alike, because of greater emphasis on collectivism, as in "us" rather than "you" and "I".
I urge you to read more on the historical development of political ideologies, especially on collectivism and individualism. This is not simply left or right, this is also collectivism versus individualism. This is what gets lost on the current discourse and why I think liberals and left lost ground in recent decades, because they don't understand. You don't have to agree, you have to understand. At the very least, progressives like Zohran Mamdani, Bernie Sanders and AO recognised this and they understand, and captured the appreciation of MAGA voters.
If you change the meaning of a word then you can apply behaviors to it that win your argument.
I’m sure you don’t mean to but hiding it inside a collection of other words looks like obfuscation to “sneak” the point in.
I think where you went wrong in your initial hypothesis was when you correlated liberalism to individualism. Individualism is a western affliction and applies to both conservative and liberal demographics.
Ask yourself why liberal Democrats are so against progressives. Ask as well why in liberal cities, there are so many NIMBYs voting against affordable housing despite being "progressive". The individualistic values "sneaks" to economic policies.
It's going to be a lot but I urge you to read on the historical development of liberalism and you'll understand. It then ties to why socialism developed, and later on fascism and communism.
There is deliberate obfuscation by your government and elites to muddy the terms to prevent further mobilisation of people against them. While in other parts of the world, calling one's self a socialist, democratic socialist or social democrats are perfectly fine, it is very much a no-no in the US and Americans instead call themselves progressive.
There we go. I suspected as much. You’re being quite dishonest and it only took you three giant walls of text to let it out.
I don’t debate conservatives. You have nothing to add to my experience. Goodbye.
You have nothing to add to my experience.
Precisely what I'm talking about, individualistic.
Just know that liberals in other countries are considered conservatives. Like, Mamdani is considered far left in US, but his policies are normal in Europe.
I have actually talked to christians about this. Even the good ones spent to much time standing on the sidelines and not challenging this shit. Its finally got so bad they are standing up but figure we have at least a decade where anyone normal is greatly put off by religion and in particular christianity but that likely bleeds into all the abrahamic.
This was an interesting read. I like to describe myself as religious but not spiritual because I believe in the importance of community organized around shared values, but I don’t believe the mythologies of religion to be literal history. Regrettably I fall in the statistic that describes religion as not being important in my life. It has been in the past and I hope it will be in the future but for now, I can’t afford to take the time off to do it.
Good. You are taking the first steps.
Now train yourself to value evidence over faith and your positive growth will continue.
Read my post again. I don’t have faith.
If you don't have faith and don't believe the stories -- then in what way are you "religious" that I, an atheist who does things like volunteer in the community and have loving relationships, am not?
I love this question! I too am an atheist. I consider myself religious because I participate in a religious community. I am devoted (religious) to their mission to serve the poor in our community, perform rituals that bind us together and affirm our values, and serve each other when in need. It is the consistent, scheduled, and ritualistic devotion to this community and its values that identifies me as religious. Maybe under this definition, you’re religious too!
Don't you think it's weird and culty to pretend shit that isn't real as some kind of necessary social facade?
Like if we all gathered to talk about the Teapot around Saturn and its father Dexter, would that be just as okay?
Especially when people really do believe this nonsense. Even if you don't.
Gather and talk about great movies. It will be much more satisfying and may actually encourage moral development.
“Don't you think it's weird and culty to pretend shit that isn't real as some kind of necessary social facade?”
Generally no, as it’s all cultural expression and social glue, but can you be more specific? Are you talking about rituals or theological systems?
“Like if we all gathered to talk about the Teapot around Saturn and its father Dexter, would that be just as okay?”
Sure but it would lack the moral power of the contemporary major religions. Saturn and the Greco-Roman pantheon may have motivated empires in past centuries, but today most societies take their inspiration from Abrahamic traditions.
“Especially when people really do believe this nonsense. Even if you don't.”
Belief does matter. I appreciate the concern about organizations whose disordered beliefs lead to miseducation, abuse, and even death.
“Gather and talk about great movies. It will be much more satisfying and may actually encourage moral development.”
This is great! Here you have ritual, community, and engagement with ideas. However, for me, it’s lacking some key elements that an institutional church provides. First, at a church, I am forced to interact with people I wouldn’t ordinarily choose as friends. There is a diversity of ages, races and socioeconomic backgrounds that adds a lot of depth to my social circle and puts me in positions to build relationships based on a common commitment to love our community instead of favorite movies or sports teams. Second, this environment makes a sacrificial demand of me. It challenges me to aspire to a high ethical standard and prompts penitence self when I fail. There are rituals to reinforce this such as community public confession and the rite of holy communion.
I think the debate we are having mirrors that of the puritans and the pilgrims, who disagreed over whether the Church of England was worth saving. The pilgrims left and built their own institutions while the puritans sought to purify the church. I think the church is worth saving from fundamentalism. Religious institutions have powerful infrastructures that are fuels by belief in love of neighbor at best and global conquest at worst. The largest global charity is the Roman Catholic Church. Is that organization full of assholes who should be in prison? Yes. But can I, a non-Catholic go to my local parish and get food and clothes with no questions asked? Yes.
I like my friend group, but I find deep meaning in the rituals and rhythms of the religious community.