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We need to make an international spectacle of prosecuting these crimes so the world can see that USA can, in fact, take out the trash. For our own safety and credibility.
I'm sure jeffires and schumer have other plans. The next battle is voting them out of speakerships.
Pretty sure it's a budget standoff. Try to act a victim get all the news spots talking about it. All the while the democrats we just elected are like, "let us hold people accountable." And their deal will magically not let them have a budget to do that.
Do it for your own safety. The credibility bit is now a generational rebuild process. The world doesn't trust you guys anymore. The process to decouple from the US is already in motion and its not going to stop. The damage is done.
Lol, yesterday it was all, "You guys need to do something! You need to fix this! All of you Americans wanted this! You're ALL pedophile lovers!"
Today it's all, "It doesn't matter that you protested and organized and worked the polls and wrested control of your legislature and state governments back against overwhelming odds and electoral fraud and ballot fuckery and gerrymanders and billionaire cash and endless streams of propaganda from every direction and threats of ICE violence at the polls and everything else they threw at you! NO! It's not good enough and never will be!"
Good thing I concentrated my efforts on real life and not on the impossible lines in the sand laid down by people who don't even live here.
As a non-american, while the mid-term results make me feel good, and seeing all the various moves to "right the ship" is great, the fact that so much trust, which much of the world treated as foundational in many ways, was so easily broken in the first place, is what I feel gives the rest of the world pause. It's a basic fact that breaking trust is easy, building it is way harder, and SOOOOO much trust was broken globally by the Trump administration.
I'm hopeful, but I do agree that building trust back is gonna be a multi-generational thing and quite likely, people are going to put more systems in place to never HAVE to trust another nation as much as much of the world used to trust the US. I do believe some things were irevocably broken, but that doesn't meant things can't get better.
Trump 1.0 was kind of forgiven because well, they made an oopsie and wont do that again...
Crimean invasion was still ignored
and then Trump 2.0
I do blame much of the rest of the world though, Trump 1.0 was time for them to come together and yet we had Brexit, Meoni, the rise of the AfD, Le Pen in France, Obe Nation in Australia and on and on. Sure, people point to Orban but we went from far right nazis to centre right, not exactly ground breaking and Ukraine is still being hammered by a despotic nation led by a bully and the rest of the world cowers behind their own timidity. Then we have the Gaza shitshow, Iran and the mighty hammer of climate change that seems likely to collapse civilisation being ignored.
Trump's not to blame for all that, even though he had his finger in the pot.
You've written as though I am heartbroken or offended that no one trusts the US, or that somehow the facts of the matter have all escaped me and I don't actually know how President Krasnov has gone out of his way to offend every single one of our allies beyond their tolerance point and likely beyond repair. Not at all. Look at my post history.
Even so I have no problem at all with what you just wrote, beyond the fact that you seem to think Americans have zero idea that this is not all there is, and far more change must come, or that you think Americans unilaterally want the world's trust back. No. The world has changed, and we are all changing with it.
The US has absolutely broken the world's trust, and to be perfectly honest, as an American I'm not sure we ever deserved it, nor that we should ever have it back. Europe needed to have been building its own defenses and resources already, ditto Canada. The entire world -- and especially those countries that so easily withdrew resources and wealth before fucking back off to cooler climes -- needs to be helping the third world.
Again, to be blunt, what you call "trust" as a non-American, I call my own American tax dollars that went somewhere other than helping me. So don't think it's the be-all and end-all to me that we've lost it. I'd like some fucking healthcare and not have to pay $2k for a goddamn thyroid panel (insurance thing, true story), and you can build your own national resources.
It can no longer be denied that there is a great deal of corruption at the bottom of that lost international "trust," and while I would not seek to directly insult you personally, the absolute truth is that not all the corruption was or is American. It may well be best at every level to just leave "trust" shattered as it is now and let the new alliances emerge where they may; at the very least, every country or power will be forced to pull its own weight.
But back to the comment I replied to earlier. The difference between what you wrote and the other one is sincerity: you, personally, are obviously sincere. Or at least you do not expect Americans who are very clearly on the side of wanting the same things you do to be your very own punching bags of discontent while the world does not change fast enough for you personally.
But there's something else. When Hungary overthrew Orban, or when Serbia threw out their autocrat, or even when Brazil threw out Bolsonaro, I didn't see dogpilers coming out online to attack. They celebrated, and we overwhelmingly celebrated with them. Everybody in the world knows this is not an overnight thing.
But then again, those countries are not the subject of a protracted decade-long online disinformation and manipulation effort. Mine is. And if there's anything that sticks out as a bad faith comment, it's what I just replied to.
👏👏👏
I would also add that fascistic ideology is on the rise everywhere, and that every nation has its own history of systemic oppression and/or imperialism to reckon with.
The U.S. may be in the hot seat, and rightly so, but if you aren’t individually actively engaged in dismantling systems of oppression and building a better world where you live, other than voting every election cycle, you have no high horse from which to condescend.
I think making an actual international antifascist org that just goes around doing inglorious basterds shit wherever this poisonous slime surfaces would be a very smart move for humanity.
It really would. I’d join in a heartbeat.
Trust isn't about money. That "America first" bullshit is trumpism.
Australia for example is not a recipient of international aid, but a long standing strategic partner. America needs us on order to project power in SEA. Trump sought to manipulate us with tariffs to discard our single payer healthcare system, so Australians could be milked by US pharma.
That's a loss of trust, and Australians don't wasn't to build closer ties with partners who don't have mutual benefits in mind. It's the same everywhere.
Its very short sighted to say you want tax dollars spent at home. Everyone does better when everyone does better. The rising tide lifts all boats. It's settled economic science. Australia is a much smaller economy but even we invest in stabilising and supporting our neighbors.
Your health insurance is a shitshow because it's a shitshow, and throwing tax money at it won't fix it.
Oh, and one other thing: don't try to tell me about what is Trumpism and what isn't. You haven't been having to hear the details of that propaganda daily for the last decade and it's one more thing about which you have no idea: it's a lot more than diverting more tax money to basic domestic purposes, a LOT more.
And if Gina Rinehart and Pauline Hanson get their way -- via very similar means to what has been going on in the US for the last eleven years or so -- and One Nation continues to get seats, you're not going to know what hit you. What looks like a joke today, something your good country would never even think about voting for, will be anything but a joke tomorrow.
You don't even see that the only way you can even say all that is by not being an American.
You have healthcare -- excellent healthcare -- and you are not in a situation like mine where you have none, and what few tax dollars are being spent domestically are being cut off in favor of more aid to (for example) Israel, a country not only with excellent socialized healthcare but subsidized higher education, so that they can enjoy a much higher standard of living while our money goes to fund their genocide because our president -- NOT us, which we proved yesterday -- wants to prop up a failing authoritarian whose days are as numbered as the war he is waging.
You literally have no idea what it is to try to manage chronic health conditions without healthcare, none. Zero. But that is my situation as I am writing this. You claim Australia is supporting your neighbors, but you are managing to do it while maintaining a standard of living at home, which is something we Americans have not enjoyed in a long, long time. Right now, my tax dollars go EVERYWHERE ELSE but my own needs, to the extent that many rural hospitals are already closing, people are going hungry, all these things that your propaganda does not show you about how it is here.
"America first" is what you distilled my comment into, but that's not what I'm talking about. I don't need or want your trust, anymore than I want to be a partner in ASIO or "project power in southeast Asia". And more importantly, you don't need to be sitting here trying to sell it to me. Why are you?
What we all need to be doing is not looking back to what is gone, but what to build with what is left that will serve all of us. And by "all of us" I do mean ALL of us, not just the historical winners.
For example, if there are trade agreements that are unfair to Australia, such as your claim to US pharma, then why are you still in them? Your government gave you up for that, it's not all on us. You should see all this as an opportunity then.
You have no idea what you don't even know, lol. Enjoy your socialized healthcare, because your tax dollars -- and mine -- are going toward it. We're helping to pay for your security so you can afford to spend on your healthcare. I want to turn that around.
Yes! And that's exactly what I want. For all of us. Myself included.
Oh don't worry. The entire world have put plans in motion to cut out the US.
And I don't mean that sarcastically. Also, we really do enjoy our healthcare. Every time I show up at the doctor to get something looked at I don't get a bill. It's awesome.
Also the US isn't "funding" the security of other places. That's just a consequence of the US projecting hard power globally for capital interests. The impact of providing "security" for other nations is just a convenient side effect that's used for soft power.
That's great if it's true -- but if it IS true, then why is everyone in this thread all upset by me being fine with it? Why are people trying to sell me so hard on keeping the status quo, telling me about "trusted partnerships," using vague and awkward hypotheticals like "punched in the face" and even pulling out the ad hominems when I say let's accept what it is?
It appears that a great many of you are deeply, deeply upset that we Americans did in fact beat the odds and do the impossible and you do NOT actually want to accept that the old world order is gone.
Whatever this new day is, I am perfectly fine with moving forward into. I don't care what other countries trust and don't trust, because it no longer matters: the orange chancre has destroyed everything that once did. I am not for resurrecting it.
So why are you all so upset? Why do you need me, specifically, one American guy, to want your trust? Why do you need me to pretend like I don't like the status quo?
You're all telling me that you're doing great without the US, and that's the best response that could be hoped for. You're all telling me you don't trust the US, and that's perfect too: rebuild yourselves without us. You're all telling me that the US has nothing to do with funding the security of other countries: great! You can't miss what you never had, then.
And your own entire comment. Clearly, it is intended to trigger some visceral response in me, because healthcare does that to a lot of people, and your response was crude and ugly. But the question is, and remains, why? Why is that such a threat to you personally that you have to come back with something you thought would personally discomfit me?
So why all the long faces? What is it you all REALLY want from me that you're not getting? What's all the bad attempts at sophistry in aid of? When the other day everyone was insisting "Fix your shit!" and we pulled off a miracle, and you're all happy as clams exactly the way you are, and you don't need the US and you don't trust us and you never will again if even then, WHY do you need me to give a shit about your trust?
Because I honestly cannot be bothered. Find someone else to mirror your hypocrisy to. You got the wrong guy.
I envy your wordsmithing ability. Also, I agree with a lot of what you wrote.
preach it, brother chunk
I doubt that I will ever travel to murikkka again in my lifetime. I'm at the prove it point in my life. I don't give a shit about talking points anymore I want to see action. And murikkka needs a Nuremberg level action for me to even start considering it
Pretty much the same for me. I've got close family in the US that I haven't seen since before the second Trump administration. Have been invited over multiple times but did not and still do not feel safe going there.
same and I live here
The loss of trust is not a new phenomenon. It started with GWB. It's also not connected to the USA acting against their stated core values; that is basically the default MO of American foreign policy.
It's about consistency. In world politics a decade is a short time and four years are a moment. Treaties are expected to last for generations and major shifts in a country's foreign policy are expected to be rare and usually connected to internal upheaval.
That's how the States have operated. Not always the nicest country around but a very reliable trade partner. After WWII they provided military defence to their allies as long as those allies let them be the leader of the alliance. All of this in a very reliable manner.
GWB already upset this when he started bullshit wars, expected everyone to participate, and (most Importantly) fucked with trade to coerce countries into joining him. Suddenly the USA weren't such a solid trading partner anymore. Obama had to do a lot of work to convince people that this was just a fluke and that there was no reason to reorient trade flows.
Then Trump I happened and besides all of the obvious bullshit he did he also fucked with foreign policy big time. Trade agreements (even ones that favored the USA) were voided, treaties were left, and organizations the USA themselves had built were antagonized. NATO was downgraded from a formidable America-centric alliance to one that might need to be able to work without or even against America. Trump made clear that American foreign policy fluctuating wildly between presidents was not a fluke but to be expected.
Biden could barely do anything at that point. Maybe eight years of someone more charismatic than Obama and with full parliamentary backing could've helped but the Biden presidency did jack. And even the most bestest government ever couldn't have fully undone the loss of trust in America's consistency.
Then Trump II rolled around and things got even worse. Now American policy can shift wildly within days. Trade behavior that partners need to stay consistent for decades is in constant flux. Pivoting trade and other agreements away from America-centric to multilateral is the only sane play at this point and that process will take years and cost trillions. Of course nobody is going to pivot back at a moment's notice.
Seeing American voters wake up and finally demand proper governance is amazing. Seriously, good job, guys. But what you lost internationally is not a reputation for not being Nazis, what you lost is a reputation for being consistent and reliable and the only way to rebuild that is by proving that you can play nice for decades at a time. Some things simply take a lot more time to build than to break.
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You're dumb
A lot of people over there still voted for Trump, still want guns & oil, and used the midterms to try and undermine the democratic process. Every country has an irrational evil selfish group, but maybe yours did so much damage to the world it needs to be visibly contained and diminished for longer than 1 midterm for people to not be wary of Americans.
Funfact, If you punch someone in the face. Just because you promised to stop doesn't mean shit till you prove it. And proving it takes time.
Its not a impossiable line in the sand unless your a moron who doesn't have a concept of time and what it takes to rebuild actual trust.
The late Sir Patrick Stewart said it best "When America sneezes, the whole world catches a cold. And I think America is about to get a very bad flu."
You guys needed to do something in the same way the loud, annoying, drunkard neighbours need to put out that fire they lit on their front porch before the whole house catches fire and spreads to neighbouring houses.
You can absolutely not trust someone and still expect them to take responsibility for their actions.
Nuremberg Trials 2.0
Nuremberg wasn't enough.
Yes, please Mamdami the shit out of your country! Literally... and urgently.
I suggest this town host the trials
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg,_Pennsylvania
Yes you do. And even then, things will never be the same. There's no guarantee you will never pull the same stunt again...or worse.
"fool me once shame on...me? Fool me twice...er...you can't get fooled again"
PS: Trump presidency is not over yet
Those other countries need to deal with THEIR own far right extremism. They sure have a lot of advice for the US but they still have issues too.
Also just a friendly reminder that Spain was openly fascistic under the Franco regime until about 40 years ago give or take. Countries can restore their image pretty damned fast, mind you I still am hoping for federal dissolutionment but I'm a California nationalist so...
Optimism and complacency are sometimes hard to distinguish.