Big brain tech dude got yet another clueless take over at HackerNews etc? Here's the place to vent. Orange site, VC foolishness, all welcome.
This is not debate club. Unless it’s amusing debate.
For actually-good tech, you want our NotAwfulTech community
Why on EARTH did they move the FUCKING BACK BUTTON and replace it in its prior position with some FUCKING BULLSHIT USELESS sidebar button
If I give up and become a supervillain, my primary hand-to-hand combat weapon will be a copy of the Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines laser-etched onto stainless steel plates and somehow bound in a physicalized representation of the tattered remains of these peoples' abandoned dignity
There are few parts I thought about sneering about in individual comments, but I think there are… enough here.
Still, one particularly galling part was this remark by the author:
Firefox’s new redesign is—at least to me—a welcome one. It no longer looks like a browser from 2015.
What on earth does a ‘browser from 2015’ look like? That was barely a decade ago! You mean an interface that still managed to function rather than whatever inscrutable nonsense the phone OSes are doing this week? Who wants software that has to be completely redesigned every five years?
At least you can remove all the sidebar crap: right-click > remove from toolbar.
I really didn't need rounded everything, not every tool needs to be Fisher-Priced.
I couldn’t care less tbh. Still a fine browser, still a great daily driver, still blocks all the ads with ublock.
Duh. Obviously the logo is what's wrong, better redesign that too.
No, wait, it needs AI!
No, wait, it needs to tell me about some VPN.
Support the specifications, be secure. Perhaps try that.
the worst part of using Firefox is mozilla
the second worst part is mozilla fans
I really can't wait for Servo to get into a usable state and have alternative browsers being build on top of that.
How do I start using this, is it something an end user can support through adoption?
no, it's very much not up to web standards yet. it has a super fast html renderer and css engine that support something like 70% of properties, a very barebones js runtime that has basically no browser apis, and a frontend that (i think) only takes urls via command-line.
When was the last time you looked into servo because this is dated at best, bordering on misleading. The js support has increased massively over the past year with things like intersectionobserver, shadow dom, and dozens more apis. Stylo supports many newer and advanced css features, of note recently is grid support. And the frontend servoshell has taken urls for a rather long time. If you try it out today with experimental features enabled you’ll find that most websites mostly work.
last year, admittedly. good to hear that it's coming along!
Honestly that description kinda makes me want to target servo for all of my hobby browser-backed UIs. Html5 with forms can do a surprising amount (albeit not always as effortlessly as just including a JavaScript library) - though I expect something like IndexedDB isn't at all available?
EDIT: well, the servo repo has a bunch of code in a storage/engines/indexeddb folder, but the repo aussi has about 30 open issues relating to "IndexedDB" in one way or another.
I'm currently targetting CSS 2.0 for one of my projects. I'm trying to make it work right on a 3DS, Netscape Navigator, IE and, of course, Servo, without serving custom files to each other.
It's been incredibly annoying, but also fun to learn about standards from 1998, and how browsers handled them.
It's also disheartening to learn that the modern web is, at its core, designed not to run on basically anything older than 2016.
The less APIs the better, some of the information my phone is giving out currently to evwry site I visit is ridiculous
some of them are, y'know, needed for the sites to do anything at all.
To disable the new design, simply uncheck the "Enable the Nova redesign" option (Settings > Appearance > Browser theme).
Alternatively, set browser.nova.enabled to false in about:config.
I got the update today and I'm so tired boss. We had almost settled on something visually calm and organized, and leeeettzzzgooooo back to floaty rounded shit with no choice left to the user !
Blender does interface right, please for the love of Cthulhu take some inspiration: it's got a "roundedness" property for every UI widget that goes from perfectly square to perfectly round, a "widget emboss" property that can be tuned to your liking or disabled entirely, a "widget underline" property, it lets you disable button decorations as well so your toolbars are only floating icons, etc. Every combination is possible and it's very easy to tune. Please do something like that and never touch it again.
@rhamph "The team that made it hopes it will help expand the browser’s audience beyond privacy-conscious techies and open-web or open source advocates[...]" For fucks sake, no. Thats firefoxes core audience and if anything they should be leaning into it more. Trying to lure normies will only drive away the core audience (we're already seeing this to an extent), And normies dont seem to care for anything that isnt ran by a company (if it is a carbon copy of what they're familiar with it's an irrelevent less popular knock off and if it's anything else that means it must be completely innaccessible unless you're some kind of tech god). Its like when applebees tried to start being a club at night, no one who wanted to go to a club wanted to go to applebees and applebees core audience didnt like that it became a club at night.
And part of this is made possible by AI tools, to be honest with you. We are able to do a lot more.
People want to feel like they’re in a modern browser—things that match the design language of the operating system. So that’s part of it. We are bringing back compact mode as well…
firefox isnt competitive enough. @grok bring back compact mode. checkmate, chromium
Was unaware of change and thought I had a virus. Looks very stupid.
gosh i hate this. gotta play with userchrome again...
gosh please no, my current one hasn't broken for over a year.
To follow up on this, the update hit my LibreWolf today & my css is mildly broken, but I'm kind of at a loss as to how to fix it and I dislike Nova.
What Firefox needs is to fire everyone responsible for the UX, if they have such people on their payroll & put all their ehm "limited" resources on improving performance & some effort is also needed to become more Chromium compatible, perhaps even on a site by site basis. Alas as long as Google is the main revenue source for the project, all this is a pipe dream.
Firefox never had other issues. Poor performance -especially JS- compared to Chromium & some websites just don't work anymore.
some effort is also needed to become more Chromium compatible, perhaps even on a site by site basis
They actually do put quite a bit of effort into making sites behave the same as Chrome, and this does actually include site-specific workarounds. My mind boggled when I learned this.
Opera 12 started to do this. China owns it now and it is based on Chromium. A couple of Open Source browsers did it for the same reason later and lost users like their was orbital bombardment hitting their project. Grab a brain... it is not the design language that makes Chrome so successful and if you look and act like them, well users are just going to use them.
Your chain of causality is comically nonsensical. First of all, Opera isn't owned "by China," it's a publicly traded company whose largest shareholder happens to be Chinese. The company's still Norwegian. Second of all, that didn't happen until 2016. Opera Software ASA (now Otello ASA) are the ones who switched to Chromium 3 years before that because they had decided that Presto couldn't compete with WebKit anymore. I disagree with that decision but that's what happened.
OK, I was tired and over-simplified. I shop with Chinese Companies and I usually defend them when they are receiving Anti Sino hate and call them to task when they pull BS, so that was beneath me and not what I was saying. As a Opera user at the time I know it is a multinational group that is only mostly Chinese Investors. I also know some Chinese based business tactics that they tried to pull on users early on and got enough blowback that they stopped doing it.
The Company went to hell as soon as Jon Von Techner left the CEO roll and they brought in that "Adult" CEO and he started the Chromium rewrite, attacking community members like me, shutting out Jon until he had to leave, openly bragged about making the company more like Google Chrome so that Google would buy out Opera ASA for the patents and he would get his golden parachute(I know that that is when CEO's are fired or the company fails, but that is how he worded it). Then when Google turned their nose up their secondary job was to find ANYBODY to buy the browser and patents. That is when they sold to the mostly Chinese Company who I could not be arsed to look up because I was off of Opera and on to Vivaldi by then not knowing initially that that was Jon's Company, IIRC. The also killed OperaMail which I used for years after even though it was left on the vine to rot and was the inspiration for the modern Thunderbird UI design.
i, too, dislike it when things are owned by the evil scary China instead of good and righteous Norway
@rhamph silver lining, of sorts: compact mode is back!
Not true:
They only renamed their "normal" density to "compact", and assumed –as usual– that their users are stupid.
It becomes obvious if you compare the spacing between "normal old design" and "compact new design".
it never went away, it just had to be 'enabled' in about:config (search: compact). note this still has to be done if you disable 'nova' redesign.