$35,000 USD for surgery is on the low end. The US healthcare system is a complete shitshow.
this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2026
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Just out of curiosity, what are American wait times like for the uninsured? Infinite?
It depends on the situation. Emergency rooms are required by law to stabilize emergency medical issues, regardless of the patient’s potential ability to pay. This is because there used to be a big issue with ERs dumping non-paying patients. If the hospital didn’t think a patient could pay, security would literally wheel them across the street, then just leave them there to figure their own shit out.
ERs run on triage, (and lots of people go to the ER for things which could be handled by an urgent care or family doctor instead), which means wait times entirely depend on your specific situation. Mildly upset stomach? You’ll probably be waiting at least a few hours, especially if it’s a busy night with lots of more urgent patients. Chest pains with a history of heart disease? You’ll have EKG leads stuck to you before you’re even finished telling the intake nurse what your issue is.
And the big key thing is that ERs are required to stabilize an emergency medical issue. They aren’t required to provide follow-up care, long-term support, etc… If you show up with a cut that needs stitches, they’ll stitch you up. But they’ll tell you to follow up with your regular doctor to make sure it’s healing properly, and to remove the stitches in a few weeks. Don’t have a regular doctor because you’re uninsured? Good luck, hope it doesn’t get infected, then maybe chew some Tylenol and remove the stitches in your bathroom.
ERs run on triage, (and lots of people go to the ER for things which could be handled by an urgent care or family doctor instead), which means wait times entirely depend on your specific situation. Mildly upset stomach? You’ll probably be waiting at least a few hours,
Canada is the same, I went in bleeding badly and was seen right away. But another time I went in just needing my finger sewn and it took around 3 hours to be seen.
Personally, I've never had particularly long waits in the ER, but I only ever went to the ER when something was seriously wrong.
But it can really depend on where you are, time of year, holiday weekend, etc etc. Hospitals do triage, So chest pains and broken legs tend to be seen before someone there with a runny nose, and the runny nose person will probably have a significantly longer wait time than someone coming in with the left side of their body sagging and uncontrollable. .
Currently, emergency rooms are bound by law to provide care to all patients, regardless of insurance status. Busy emergency rooms will triage patients, ensuring those who need care the most get it first. Unfortunately for uninsured patients, the hospital will hand them a bill as they leave; something simple as wound cleaning and a few stitches will run upwards of several thousand dollars. That total can exceed tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on level care and length of stay.
A family member of mine recently had a medical episode while we were at a restaurant. Spontaneous syncope followed by prolonged lightheartedness and loss of balance. The ambulance ride to the hospital alone cost over $7000. They arrived at the ER around 4pm and was released shortly before midnight. Within a couple hours of arriving my family member felt and that they had fully recovered, but the ER would not release them until a doctor was available to discuss test results. Around 10pm the doctor finally called them back; they found nothing out of the ordinary in the blood work, heart seemed to be working fine. We waited two more hours before they gave the okay for release.
The bill for the ambulance, ER care, and about a baker's dozen of various fees and incidentals, was over $23000. Thankfully they had insurance, which covered most of it, but they still had to pay several thousand out of pocket for going to an "out of network" hospital. That alone is infuriating because not only is the entire concept of in-or-out of network medical providers a predatory practice, the choice of which ER to go to was up to the paramedics, it was never up to us. Even if it was up to us, we had no way of quickly knowing which local hospitals, if any, were "in network."
No, just like anywhere else, wait times are based on urgency. A severed limb will be taken instantly, a bloody nose will wait until there’s an empty bed. Doesn’t matter if you’re insured or not.
Uninsured will just get billed a full amount after the fact (payable in installments to the hospital), vs insured who might have to pay a copay, and then a few month later will get billed a reduced amount, after the insurance company chooses what they’ll cover.
I speak from experience. I was uninsured for a short time, and of course my appendix chose that time to rupture. I was admitted and in the ER instantly. Spent three days recovering in the hospital. Before I left the hospital had a bill for me. It was very high. I set up a payment plan. Eventually I stopped making payments, because I was broke. Hospital sent my bill to a collector. I blew them off.
Was unable to get a loan for a house for 10 years.
So insane that they see "oh he didn't pay 10s of thousands for an unexpected medical debt, must be irresponsable with money."
It’s largely because the “tens of thousands” is usually a result of being uninsured. And if you’re uninsured, it’s usually because you’re unemployed. And lenders tend to get squirmy at the idea of giving a loan to anyone who hasn’t been fully employed since the day they were born.
There was actually a rule implemented by the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau shortly after the pandemic, to prevent medical debt from impacting your credit history. Because lots of Americans were suddenly finding themselves in an awful job market with tons of medical debt from being sick. But last year, the fifth circuit court of appeals (the one that presides over Texas and Louisiana, and which is stacked with conservative judges as part of the Southern Strategy) voided the rule and allowed medical debt to appear on credit reports again. The ruling from the conservative court also prohibited the CFPB from implementing similar rules in the future.
There was actually a rule implemented by the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau shortly after the pandemic, to prevent medical debt from impacting your credit history. Because lots of Americans were suddenly finding themselves in an awful job market with tons of medical debt from being sick. But last year, the fifth circuit court of appeals (the one that presides over Texas and Louisiana, and which is stacked with conservative judges as part of the Southern Strategy) voided the rule and allowed medical debt to appear on credit reports again. The ruling from the conservative court also prohibited the CFPB from implementing similar rules in the future.
you have to wonder what kind of soulless, hateful, worthless pile of shit roughly packed into a humanoid shaped bag would look at medical debt not ruining peoples lives and go "You know what, thats not right. people need to be more fucking miserable" and sue to get it overturned.
I imagine it was something like "but the lenders deserve to know if you were in medical debt ever!! They didn't save millions in case anything went wrong ever!!"
That's a great username btw
medical debt should never end up on a credit report.
Of course medical debt shouldnt exist as a concept. Funny how all but 1 of the major countries on earth have figured this out.
If your leg is hanging off you don't have to wait 12 hours. Idiot don't know about triage
It's unfortunately common for some to assume that they are the only sick person in the entire healthcare system.
Um, excuse me! Don't you know how important I think I am!
Yeah I don't hear the long waiting lines argument anymore
A comparison of Canada vs the USA is hard. All my instruments need to be recalibrated for imperial shithole country scales, but the conclusion is always the same: THE USA SUCKS.
The only issues with Canadian Health Care system is american capitalism and "business".
And that is just the referral
Some fellow Canadians bash our system but usually its those that don't get what triage is.
Like my wife felt Ill we went to emerge, maybe waited 4-6 hours. Low blood sugar doctor recommended eating higher protein snacks in between meals.
But when they figured out I had cancer it was fast track for everything.
No point in explaining. If you go to the ER in America you’re waiting 12 hours, at least, unless you’re actively dying.
Oh and it will cost you a nice new car.
When the Australian Emergency department keeps me waiting for less than 15 minutes, I really start to worry.
Yeah the reason I haven't waited that long in the ER isn't because I'm American. Ok actually it is, as an American I'm not going to the ER unless I'm certain I have to. Head trauma, blood loss, issues breathing, anaphalaxis… I think a bone might be broken? I can go to the urgent care in the morning
People who think America has better healthcare are either wealthy, or don't have any health issues they deal with regularly.
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12 hours and $35k? Stop your bullshit. I've dealt extensively with healthcare in the US. It's more like 10 months and $110k.
My partner is literally waiting 10 months to see a rheumatologist for debilitating joint pain. A virtual visit, no less.
Last year my best friend got diagnosed with cancer, and his VA docs let him sit 3 months between appointments. By the time they offered a treatment plan, he had become terminal, almost a year in. He died last June. It's really quietly horrifying to see it play out in real-time.
But on the bright side, the insurance company probably saved a lot of money. And as you know, line going up is more important than quality of life going up or even staying alive. /s
I’m sorry about your friend, nobody deserves that.
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When I went to Econ class, the professor explained that we call it "Free Market Economics" because of four freedoms:
- Freedom of entry and exit - participants (buyers, sellers, and prospective such) can enter or exit the market at their leisure, and the market will not change
- Freedom of participation - every participant is in the market of their free will and can leave the market without repercussion
- Freedom of substitution - every product on a particular market is essentially the same
- Freedom of information - every participant has the same information about availability and prices at the same time
The reward is that free markets are efficient: they lead to the lowest prices and greatest exchange of goods. That is the reason we have them.
When the four freedoms are not mandated, the market fails in different ways, and that's absolutely expected. When information is available to some before it is to others, we get price distortions - that's where insider trading laws come from.
Health care, the prof explained, suffers from the fact there is no freedom of participation. You either buy care or you suffer the potentially deadly consequences. That's why free markets and health care are fundamentally incompatible: they are expected to be.
Healthcare is the literal example of inelastic demand my prof used to teach us the concept. If you die without it, then there is no price where a reasonable actor can choose to stop participating in the market.
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Cut my finger off twice, almost lost my foot to sepsis whilst camping, and was witness/transport for 2 different heart attacks.
Longest I've waited for serious treatment is about 5 minutes, most expensive was a 50$ parking ticket.
You're being fleeced like fools
So, out of curiousity, do you work as a sword juggler or is it more of a hobby?
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The thing about Canadian care is that it usually works well for urgent and life saving care. If you don't like the wait for non urgent items, you have to option to pay - you just need to travel somewhere to get it done. The media likes to go on about the cases when people die while waiting but some of them were so sick they weren't going to make it anyway. Having quick access to ER isn't a guarantee that you will survive the heart attack symptoms you've been ignoring for the last month.
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In america you die
I had a 14ga puncture wound last year in Canada, about 1" from my femoral artery. Rapidly flowing blood, tourniquet applied on-scene just below the groin.
Ambulance was on scene quickly, I was immediately put into the trauma center in the ER, stapled, full body CT with contrast, tetanus booster and some more stuff I don't remember. Time in ER waiting room: zero. Time in hospital: ~1.5 hr total, mostly spent waiting for a follow up outside the ER.
I paid $250 for the ambulance and nothing else. Canada's healthcare system is GREAT at keeping you alive (if you're not indigenous, which is a true national shame).
Canada's healthcare system is not amazing at keeping you healthy. Something minor and chronic? Get fucked, it's a 2 year wait for a specialist referral. Minorly hurt but not at risk of death? Yeah enjoy the 4-10 hour wait in the ER room. When will you be seen? Idk when we can get to it. Want to see a doctor? Walkin will see you for free in about 45 minutes. Want to see your doctor? Yea they're out this month working at the hospital, how's 3 months from now?
All of this is vastly better than my time growing up in the US where the hospital missed diagnosing me with pneumonia and gave me permanent lung scarring. Or missed my fractured ankle on the xray and said I was fine. And then billed my parents 10's of thousands of dollars.
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Lol if you got a real problem in Canada, you're in and out. No fucking around. Trauma, injury, blood everywhere, yah you get stabilized and attention right away. Hell, I've gotten into a car accident. Bad one, no injuries though, got home started to feel rough after the adrenalin kicked out went to hospital said what's up, in 40 min I had xray, CT scan, and an all clear, see ya.
You come with a flu? Go sit your ass down maybe they will see you tommorow.
I had heart arrythmia. Was in within 5 minutes and hooked up to monitors. If Im in for something less serious, I'll wait. No big deal.
Americans dont seem to get that when we complain about our health system, it doesnt mean we want theirs. We want our issues fixed, not more issues and going bankrupt because of a small medical problem.
American here. Reluctantly went to the ER because I had been vomiting for a couple of days. Turned out that my gallbladder just stopped working. Was immediately placed into a room, given IV antibiotics, and had surgery the next morning.
Had to stay for 4 days to make sure I was in good shape. The surgery wasn’t super expensive, but the room itself cost me way too much.
Total cost was just over $24k. No insurance (contractor). Even on payments, it’s insane.
My plan is to just never get sick for the rest of my life so I don’t go into another debt hole.
That instant room you got is nothing special, but just how triage works. I came to the emergency room some years ago, shitting and vomiting my guts out, and they placed me in quarantine faster than I could hand over my insurance card. Come with a sore ankle and wait until the other patients are stabilized.
(Germany)
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Today i crushed my finger in a metal door and it started bleeding a LOT because the metal cut my skin.
In the beginning i did not want to go to the ER, but then my SO persuaded me "what if you get sepsis and it needs to be amputated???"
I went there and i waited 1 hour only for triage (i can understand it, everyone was dying on a hospital bed while i had this little cut on the finger)
after triage the doctor says we need to xray. Xray?? Don't need it's just a cut, not broken, i don't feel painful. She persuades me to wait another hour for the xray and i am a bit pissed because now i have to waste time for xraying a finger that's definitely not broken, just cut and bleeding.
Result: i broke my index finger. WHAT?? I did not expect this conclusion.
Total paid €0, total time 3 hours
When I was a kid, in America, I got a huge gash in my head that required stitches. It took them so long to see me in the waiting room they had to reopen the wound to stitch it shut.
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