Even the street corner hustler knows you give the first rock out for free.
Technology
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related news or articles.
- Be excellent to each other!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
- Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.
Approved Bots
They also know not to spend trillions making the product.
Hey, cocaine and baking soda ain't cheap you know. Plus you got to have a microwave and shit. Overhead is crazy like that.
/s
I'm excited to see the PE Ratios after these IPOs. We're already well into dot.com absurdity, but throw in some multi-trillion market caps with negative earnings?
I think those IPOs are meant to bring in enough money to give the founders and managers golden parachutes before the whole system folds.
They don't make any money - on the contrary - and they won't miraculously start making it just because the IPO happened.
You're thinking too long term. IPOs are the C suite cashing out.
Here's the problem... He says AI was adopted beyond his expectations. Great.
But if somebody is using it at the current price point of super cheap or free, are they going to keep using it when it gets expensive?
You can make a basic chatbot run on a desktop PC, but nobody wants to pay for that. Once you get into things with useful generation and large context windows, or things like video generation, suddenly you need one or more $10,000+ pieces of hardware to run it. So the $10 a month you charge the user is basically an introductory price that doesn't cover your hardware fees let alone the software engineers to build your AI.
Eventually, the bill comes due. Eventually, you have to look at your customers and how much machine time they use each month and how much your r&d costs and figure out what the actual cost to the customer has to be. And then the customer rethinks how useful the AI is or isn't.
People will pay $10 a month for chat GPT to write their emails. Will they pay $100 a month?
What about the company that replaced all their software developers with AI. Suddenly the AI cost as much or more as the software developers. Only now the developers who understood the code base work for other companies.
There will be a fun correction when this happens.
Once you get into things with useful generation and large context windows, or things like video generation, suddenly you need one or more $10,000+ pieces of hardware to run it.
A Blackwell server with 72 GPUs costs about $3 million, plus requires 130 kW of power (about 3 residential homes' max rated power through a residential 200A circuit box, for about $600-$1000/day in electricity cost).
You're gonna need to sell a lot of $20/month subscriptions to get that paid for, assuming that the server is good for 5 years. If it's only good for 3 years, the economics are basically impossible.
... assuming that the server is good for 5 years. If it's only good for 3 years, the economics are basically impossible.
And surely the big AI companies wouldn't decide that hardware rated for ~3 years should be amortized over 5-6 years in order to massively inflate their value on paper.
If it’s only good for 3 years, the economics are basically impossible.
Also consider that as models improve, the newer frontier models that are doing actual useful work require significantly more compute and RAM than basic chat bots...
I am no AI fan, but I do not see this going away. I think if you can get enough people addicted, they will pay costs if the costs seem nominal at first.
If someone can’t write well and has an upcoming deadline for an essay or needs to write an important document, they might use a one-time fee. If someone uses it for day-to-day decision making, they will certainly do a subscription if it seems cheap at first. And once you have those people expecting to pay, the price keeps increasing every couple of years.
Example a - Facebook. Rolled out as an entirely free service and enrolled billions of members. Now enough people pay for extras in things as stupid as Candy Crush that they can tack millions onto their revenue for nearly no benefit provider. If enough people pay $1 for something stupid, it pays off
Example b - Prime streaming services. It was a free tack-on to people with Prime memberships. So people bought Fire sticks and use it as a home base. And now they are so cemented into the system and don’t know how to use an alternative so they will pay for 1) extra apps that will show the program they want, which will pay Amazon a fee and 2) pay extra for no ads now that they are addicted
I also have no doubt that advertising can be baked into AI. Just wait until it writes a pathology report and recommends a certain brand name medication, or gives someone a to-do list for hosting a Christmas party with specific brands and desired trends listed.
As for video generation, I think you have a small enough pool that does this anyway, and this will increasingly be consolidated by price towards a handful of powerful individuals who want to sway public influence.
You and I may not pay for it, but have no doubt you can get similar adoption to streaming services and you can get people to pay for anything if it feels cheap enough to be nothing money. I’ve become a cynical old fart and I’ve watched this song and dance too many times.
I think the price point is where your theory falls apart. The AI companies are spending far more than Netflix and they will need to charge more than the average family can afford in order to turn a profit. (Especially in the US where people are struggling to pay for gas and groceries right now.)
Take a look at the new token-based business services. People are blowing through their monthly allotment in a couple of days doing the same things they had been doing previously. Businesses won't be able to afford increasing their AI spending by 10x to keep up.
Advertising is already baked into AI. There just need to switch it in fully. That’s coming.
People will pay $10 a month for chat GPT to write their emails.
They won't even pay that in many cases but instead rely on the free offerings. Expect those to go away altogether, to be heavily hamstring, or to become absolutely riddled with advertisements.
On the code development front it's even worse as now you have an unpredictable cost based on token consumption rather than the predictable cost of a salary and have no leverage to negotiate the cost.
Quite true. Switching providers is an apples to oranges comparison, so it's not like you can just switch from Claude to Gemini and expect everything to work perfectly.
Based on what? Spotify took what, 16 years to turn a profit?
Money stopped working like you expect it to a long time ago.
Really? Has anyone mentioned that to Tesla? Or to whoever is in the government that keeps giving him billion dollar contracts?
Oh you mean the Tesla with a PE Ratio of 382 (20 times the industry average), a PEG of 16, P/B to 18, massive insider stock dumps, and is still down YTD? Tesla still has power because of their stranglehold on charging. AI companies have insane costs and people souring on them as they either lose their jobs or see their companies’ costs go up as a result, all without solid ROIs and strong buyers remorse.
And Trump/Hegseth keep giving them contracts because they’re idiots
I want to see everyone hop on the IPOs and ride them all the way down to the floor!
Fuck AI
If I wasn’t convinced the entire financial system was fraudulent I would be shorting the fuck out of all of them
"The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent"

The arc of technology progress since the crash in the early 2000s has been pump and dump scams perpetrated on the entire market.
'At some point you've got to make money'
Hey hey hey, now, that's loser talk. Here, c'mon, let's snort a ton of coke.
That sounds like something The Wolf of Wall Street would say
A lot of people working in finance were not alive when that movie was taking place and like the movie Wall Street the ones who watched it learned all the wrong lessons.
ERROR: Capitalism has no idea how to deal with this situation.
I'm actually kinda fascinated with how this will shake out. This isn't like one or two companies making a bet. The entire S&P500 is pushing Ai.
Well, here's hoping a few investors do a flip before they hit the pavement.
This is capitalism working exactly as intended. People with capital are using it to guide businesses to make them more money.
The mistake is thinking that capitalism is motivated by a healthy economy, when the theory is that if everyone is aggressively selfish then the economy will naturally become healthy and efficient.
The people making money are counting on making their money as investors keep pumping more in. The investors are all aiming to be the last one to sell before the crash. Russian roulette venture capitalism. (In some cases they think the economy will tolerate 1-2 companies and they're aiming to buy a controlling interest in a company worth 2% current value after the correction, and in others they just have so much money that a few billion is a minor bet - BlackRock comes to mind, with more than $10 trillion to invest)
If you look at 2008, we had a similar-ish situation with a major portion of the economy being invested in mortgage based investments.
ERROR: Capitalism has no idea how to deal with this situation.
Au contraire, it actually does! The same way the last four or five economic crises were handled - massive government bailouts for the affected sector.
It'll soften the blow for the common people's 401ks so they don't completely revolt, but the c-suite execs will get their big payoff and the asset buyup (datacenters, hardware, etc) in the aftermath will transfer an unimaginable amount of wealth into the hands of yet fewer people and dramatically increase inequality.
It's a shitty solution, and one that is not viable long term, but since it has worked so many times in the past, I doubt the government is going to change up their winning strategy. Especially not with the current clown cadre at the helm.
Is the real hope that AI will be a subscription service? Those subscription billionaires ain't got a clue. Let's change "At some point you've got to make money" to "At some point you've got to add value".

Probably the least controversial take on the threadiverse but i stumpled upon Ed Zitrons Blog like maybe two years ago. I've read a few posts of him since then and i just watch the shitshow unfold tbh. Its not that i 100% believe in his predictions. But he has made his point. I'm just an average fuck. I dont know shit. But it was so far the most believable and backed up assessment of the current AI situation.
I make barely enough money to afford my rent in bumfuck europe. How the fuck am i more informed about AI then some CEO? WTF.
- replacing human workers is their fondest dream so they want to believe so hard
- they have FOMO "everyone else is doing it and I don't want to lose out"
- everyone else is doing it and if they didn't do it and were wrong, it would be worse for their reputation than following the pack and being wrong
- c suite types talk to each other and they've formed an echo chamber
In summary, CEOs (of large public companies anyway - your mom and pop plumber could also be a CEO) are not smarter than the average person. Just more amoral and having the connections to be CEOs
I'm not much of an AI skeptic compared to most on Lemmy. I think the technology is incredibly useful and probably beneficial to society if we can remove the control of the ruling class.
That said I truly don't understand how the AI business model is supposed to work. I'm sure there is some market for businesses, governments, etc., basically people who have too much money who may want to pay for the latest and greatest models.
But I don't really see the average consumer doing this when slightly less good versions will almost certainly be available for free. And the above customers will not be able to support the level of investment that's going on right now.
technology is incredibly useful and probably beneficial to society
For what? It's not reliable enough to actually automate anything and people that use it regularly inevitably stop checking the output and start falling victim to hallucinations. It's pretty good at rifling through social media posts which I don't think is good for society and it's OK as a frontline support system but even that they normally go too far and just make it infuriating
This isn’t directed at you specifically, but just the broad sentiment that people are coming now OK with AI even though people kinda I guess forgot that like AI stole and ripped all of our information books. Music works of art all of it’s stolen ya know. But I’ll digress it doesn’t matter anymore.
Come on now, Nvidia is making money. Nvidia then just gives it back to them to make more money is all.
Yeah, Nvidia invests in Open AI, Open AI uses that money to buy Nvidia chips. More people invest in Nvidia because it's revenue keeps growing.
Charles Ponzi would be proud.
Alan and Beth, two economists are walking through some woods. They come across s pile of shit and Alan says to Beth “if you eat that shot I’ll give you a tenner”
“Okay,” says Beth. She eats the shit and Alan hands her a £10 note
They walk on for a bit and find another pile of shit. Beth says to Alan “now I’ll give you a tenner of you eat that pile of shit”
“Okay,” says Alan. He eats the shit and Beth hands the £10 note back to him
They walk on a bit further and Beth says “you know, it seems to me like we both just ate a pile of shit and nobody gained anything”
“Ah, that’s where you’re wrong,” says Alan “we’ve increased the GDP by £20”