Newsome too busy pandering to shareholder grifters to actually do anything that helps the working class
Late Stage Capitalism
A place for for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited.
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China: We are building out infrastructure because it is good for our people.
The US: Auuuurrrggghh! WHoSe GoNnA PaY FoR ThiS!? WheN CaN I ExPecT a PROFIT!?
But At wHaT CoST?
It is contrary to Elon Musk's interests to build public transport. He wants it to be private and operated by him. See the robotaxi and all the bullshit with his tunnels which even at the diameter they bore could accommodate a proper mass transit system but don't and never will.
The point of hyperloop and the boring company was to kill real public transport projects. He probably doesn't care if those companies make money or not. As long as he can fuck up public transportation projects by claiming to a better alternative.
Whatever you think about China, you gotta give them some credit for their public transport. Right now, China's total metro system length is almost equal to the rest of the world combined.
- China: 11003.004 km (6,855.591 mi)
- Rest of world: 12632.24 km (7,847.44 mi)
Furthermore, out of 12 longest metro systems in the world, 11 are in China. The remaining one is in Russia. Just crazy numbers.
This is probably unachievable in Western countries, since they expect the metro systems to make a profit, which makes no sense whatsoever. Some don't, of course, and they, too, have respectable subway configurations.
i have many issues with the ethics and morals that comprise the current chinese dynasty. but they are extraordinarily rational when it comes to the great imperial forces of the world. it costs a government less, long term, to implement big public works projects. the technology for high speed rail will reduce traffic jams, reduce infrastructure maintenance costs, and boost the economy but it will take 30 years to bear fruit? china will do that because it's cheaper.
meanwhile here everything is analyzed and implemented in 2 year increments. it's unsustainable
This was the most infuriating bullshit. Why is anyone listening to Musk? He's there to line his pockets, that's it.
People fall for the con man that only has "concepts of plans", the con man with actual "plans" is literally invisible to them let alone a blind spot.
I read an interesting report about high speed rail development in Europe. It was comparing Spain and UK a lot. Spain has the biggest high speed network in Europe (second biggest in the world after China) and UK failed to build a single line after the costs reached $100B and project was scaled down. Spain is also building its network at lowest cost in Europe. According to the report the main reasons for that are:
- consistent political backing: all parties support rail development so over the last couple of decades the entire process was optimized
- consistent support on all levels of administration: central and local governments support rail so the plans don't change all the time. proper planning can be done
- mature public-private cooperation: over the years government and private companies learned to work together to build quickly and cheaply while maintaining quality
What is happening in UK and USA is that high speed rail is a for-profit project for private companies. Government promises them $20B and they start building. If they finish the money dries up so they never finish. When they spend everything government gives them more money. They can't cancel the project because thousands of people work on it so they just limit the scope making it less and less useful. In the end the rail doesn't even reach the cities it was supposed to, less people can use it, everything stops being economically viable and the whole thing collapses.
Basically in Spain private companies make profit as long as building railways makes economical sense. In US/UK they make money for as long as government can fund them. Building anything is not the goal.
You can also look at Japan, where railroad isn't even the main moneymaker for the companies that operate them (pretty sure some even run at a loss). Instead, it's the hubs that those railroads create (ie all the real state connected to the stations which is owned by the railroad companies and can be rented out to businesses).
In essence, railroads shouldn't be built because they're profitable. They should be built because they're a basic necessity for unifying a country/region. The profit comes from the increased mobility and the new hubs and opportunity that mobility can create. But most politicians are too short-sighted for this.
The Western business mindset isn't compatible with this approach. If you have a business that has 2 portions and only one is profitable you split it and dump the unprofitable part. If the government forces you to do both you just cut costs from the unprofitable train making everything shitty for everyone.
The Asian cultural Zeitgeist has more focus on stewardship so if someone gives you a responsibility (public transit) and a privilege (commercial hubs) you understand that the great power comes with the great responsibility. You're still a capitalist and get rich as fuck, but society benefits too.
Even the malls are run with the same philosophy; they will allow rest areas, child-care, and other stores that either pay less rent or no rent which support the entity overall.
California never cancelled the high speed rail, it's just taking forever because it's so easy to mire any project in bureaucracy and lawsuits.
On the plus side, it's probably the hardest regulatory environment to do such things, so, once it's finished, my hope is that it'll lead to an explosion of high speed rail now that it can be done with the benefit of all of the lessons learned.
I mean, at least we're still fuckin trying.
mire any project in beuracracy and lawsuits
That may have been true in the 2010s for cal hsr, but at this point the thing holding it up is just money. The environmental review is done for the segment between san Francisco and Los Angeles and everything has been cleared and construction is going on for the initial Bakersfield to Merced segment. There's just no money to build it, the only consistent form of funding for it is California cap and trade sales which only nets $750 million annually on a project estimated to cost well over $100 billion. They occasionally get some money from the federal government only to have that taken away or suspended whenever trump gets in office.
That's what really separates China from the US, the people in control of their tax dollars are using them to build infrastructure for the people instead of using it on billionaire tax breaks and to make jets and bombs to drop on Palestinians.
I remember when the Texas Lone Star Rail project between Austin and San Antonio finally got "fully funded." I was in college taking a transportation systems course, and one of our guest speakers was the director of the project.
I realized how doomed we were when I found out she was the only employee of the project and only worked 20 hours a week - almost all of which was speaking engagements.
Exactly- California has to negotiate with every landowner, government agency, business, etc. to build a railroad. China doesn't have to deal with that. If they want to tear down a building, they just do it without caring much about the person they are taking it from. Authoritarianism is really good at doing big things really fast.
The USA effectively does not perform governance in the sense that is meant by liberal democracies of the last century. That's just not what the USA does, and it doesn't make sense to compare it to a government that exists to serve its citizens.
It makes sense in the regard to illustrate that the US. Is lagging behind most other countries. They talk a big game as if they are the best in the world when they're 50-60 years behind everyone else. To show a comparison for a government that does exist to serve its citizens, as opposed to a government that only claims to serve its citizens.
You forgot the part where California decides to dump Elon and keep going on it's own project, only for Trump to try and shut it down.
To be fair, China's high speed rail network has also grown so quickly because there are no public consultations or similar. They just build it, the people be damned. If you don't have a democracy, that works. But I would rather live in a democracy than an authoritarian state (at the same time, I'm glad I'm not living in the crumbling democracy that is the US).
Of course, what Elon is saying is total BS, and the US could have started much earlier - or, that is, improved the north east corridor and used that experience to bring more high speed rail to the US much earlier. But anyway...
Next four largest high speed rail networks are in Spain, Japan, France, and Germany... which might not be perfect democracies, but are certainly far from the worst.
Democracy isn't the problem, and you certainly don't need to be a dictatorship to get things done.
The US will never have true high speed rail because they would rather deliver maximum profit to shareholders than acturally improve anything, thats why in a decade from now China will probrally still have a pretty good standard of living while the US will become a fascist undeveloped hellhole.
The concept that a purely "authoritarian" state would build a widely beneficial and affordable public transportation system is an oxymoron. China built it because their railways were aging and they needed a new railsystem.
So China didn't consult EVERY affected person or NGOs. But even in America, the govt does that and then just ignores all the feedback and does what they want anyway as long as there was a way for someone to make more money.
So we could build a coast to coast high speed rail line in a year if we really wanted to.
I doubt it. It took 5 years to build the first 515 km Shinkansen line, in Japan. A coast to coast railway is a major project. 1 year is not a reasonable timeframe. Infrastructure is slow to build.
It took 5 years of construction to open the south east TGV line, 7 years to complete it.
It took 24 years to construct I-90 from coast to coast, and that's with most of the east coast segments being preexisting toll roads.
All major Infrastructure projects are slow. Your timeline is not realistic.