this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2025
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To be fair, China's high speed rail network has also grown so quickly because there are no public consultations or similar. They just build it, the people be damned. If you don't have a democracy, that works. But I would rather live in a democracy than an authoritarian state (at the same time, I'm glad I'm not living in the crumbling democracy that is the US).
Of course, what Elon is saying is total BS, and the US could have started much earlier - or, that is, improved the north east corridor and used that experience to bring more high speed rail to the US much earlier. But anyway...
Next four largest high speed rail networks are in Spain, Japan, France, and Germany... which might not be perfect democracies, but are certainly far from the worst.
Democracy isn't the problem, and you certainly don't need to be a dictatorship to get things done.
The US has a population density of 37 people per square kilometer, the EU is 106, which is three times higher. China is 147 people per square kilometer.
By distance, those European rail networks are also tiny compared to what's needed in the US.
A rail line from Seattle-Portland-San Francisco-Los Angeles alone would be longer than the entire highspeed rail system in Germany, and only connect 21 million people across those metro areas, half of which are in LA.
The German network covers around 60 million people in the Metro areas it covers.
LA to New York by rail is the same distance as the entirety of Spain's rail system, and would have an even shittier coverage ratio. Not to mention even a direct trip would still take 14-16 HOURS, where a flight takes 6ish + a couple at the airport waiting for less than $100 return on a budget airline. Why the fuck would anyone take the train? Even if the train was free, it wouldn't be worth it for anyone conducting business between those two places.
When distances get large, high-speed rail gets crushed by airplanes. The infrastructure for high speed rail is just too fucking expensive unless you're moving absolutely massive numbers of people around.
The US will never have true high speed rail because they would rather deliver maximum profit to shareholders than acturally improve anything, thats why in a decade from now China will probrally still have a pretty good standard of living while the US will become a fascist undeveloped hellhole.
They're going to be laying track in California in 2026. The roadway has been completed for 170 miles, and the environmental impacts completed for the entire phase one.
It's slow and expensive, but it's happening.
Sure they will. Any day now, right?
They just recently approved (November 26) the 3.5 billion USD RFP for track and systems, and the rail head for it is finally complete. So sometime in 2026 they will start laying track.
The concept that a purely "authoritarian" state would build a widely beneficial and affordable public transportation system is an oxymoron. China built it because their railways were aging and they needed a new railsystem.
So China didn't consult EVERY affected person or NGOs. But even in America, the govt does that and then just ignores all the feedback and does what they want anyway as long as there was a way for someone to make more money.
How is that an oxymoron? An authoritarian government isn't excluded from doing good things. Most authoritarian governments have done some good, it's just not an excuse for the authoritarianism or whatever else those respective governments are up to.
And take a closer look at California high speed rail. Public consultations have factored into how things are/were planned. It's far from ideal, and especially in the US there are plenty of problems (take a look at Europe for better examples, even though they're far from perfect). And at least in the US, there are elections that, as very imperfect as they are, the citizens still (emphasis on still) have a certain say as to how things are running.
I mean, yeah, working in the transit branch, I would love to ram things through the way they do in China - it would make my job way easier and I've had colleagues fantasize about it, but in the whole of things, I am glad that the people still hold a certain amount of power here. Unchecked power is never a good thing.
The US allows for eminent domain as well, no?
Most countries have a form of eminent domain, that isn't an indicator for authoritarianism in and of itself. What's relevant is the checks and balances that are applied, and if they're effectively applied.
Yes, but it’s a bureaucratic process that involves a lot of red tape and ultimately has to compensate the displaced property owner. It definitely gets abused sometimes, and property owners are often undercompensated, but there are at least thresholds that must be met.
In China, there is no private land ownership. Residents lease their land from the state. So if the state says a railroad is coming through, your lease simply doesn’t get renewed, and you no longer have the right to remain in your house. It’s efficient and highly collectivist, but discompassionate.
China has a higher sense of representative government than the US does.
BuT aT wHaT cOsT
The climate might be past every tipping point, but by golly the people who own land weren't treated unfairly.
"The glorious democracy where 75.000 people have gotten disappeared this year without due process can't build a railway because it's too democratic"