this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
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What's the old Trotskyite joke? Two members, three parties?
Man, I can't even agree with myself most days.
I'm imagining you doing the Gollum thing arguing with yourself about theory and both sides accusing the other of being a revisionist
I wish you were further from the truth.
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Unfortunately in this case, it's projection. The right falls in line and they accomplish stuff because of that. The left could really learn from that.
The right falls in line because they're fascists who are afraid of thinking for themselves. Diversity of thought causes discourse, that's a natural fact, but it should be celebrated as a strength. Looking for leftists to shut up and fall in line is like peak "enlightened centrist" thinking.
There's fascists, american monarchists, libertarians, religious nuts, the rare fiscally conservative, the 2A'ers, etc.
Who said "leftists to shut up"? Not me. You can bemoan the 2 party system all you want, but it's what's here. The way for the left to be actually effective in achieving at least some of its goals is to give Dems consistent and overwhelming victories.
Who said “leftists to shut up”?
People talking shit
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They definitely can. It's been off putting lately that the left has a check list that I have to hit every mark on to not be seen as a right winger.
There are leftist who are Christian. There are leftists who are against abortion, but understand that education and reproductive health (including allowing abortions) is an important and productive way to reduce abortions, instead of bans. There are leftists who are still traditional, holding morals and ethics that aren't fluid but also not rigid.
No one is truly happy about their political choices. Except for the insane 1/3 of Americans on the Maga train maybe.
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If the left were even a fraction as organized as claimed, Bernie would have blown the primary out in 2016 and ridden into the whitehouse with solid majorities in both houses.
It honestly roils me how impotent the left is, because an active organized left could grab this country by the balls and drag it into a whole new era, but all we have is a million headed hydra with each neck pulling in a different direction because nobody can get over themselves for long enough to fall in line behind a common objective.
Yeah, a lot of the stuff that the "Left" fails on seems to be because it hits "well it's not exactly perfect and good for absolutely anybody do we're not gonna do it"
Whereas the "Right" is basically 'well it came from my guy so... seems good'
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They're poor that's why.
Uneducated, low resources, no time, no money or means.
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The Left as a single monolith is the work of fiction.
True. But it needs to be one to be an effective boogeyman in a speech like this.
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There's no division like leftist unity
Still, makes us generally immune to a charismatic con man taking over the entire party.
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Every time a right wing pundit talks about the left wing hive mind it's a clear tell that they have no understanding of their political rivals at all..
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That sounds like something somebody would say if they knew absolutely nothing about the Left (or were just trying to scare/motivate their own base). The Left are ok-ish at organizing when they’re motivated enough, but they can barely agree on anything and will find any excuse to get into a fight with each other. You’ve got people on the Left willing to virtue-signal about Israel, vote third party and lose the presidency to Trump, a candidate who would make things demonstrably worse for Palestinians and would likely increase aid to Israel and remove any lukewarm constraints that the current administration is limp-wristidly raising. Meanwhile, Republicans will overlook any of the hundreds of things wrong with their candidate and compromise any values they’ve had, just to elect the biggest shit stain in history because they know he’ll make the other side feel bad.
(or were just trying to scare/motivate their own base)
DingDingDing we have a WINNER!
Yeah, I guess we do have one common goal, make life better for everyone?
No, it's make everyone's quality of life better! /j
Look, look... both of you make excellent points but I think the real important common goal is a better life for everyone and I will fistfight both of you until we all agree or some fascist assnugget comes by and makes us forget our pedantry.
Since nobody here has said anything about IMPROVING life for everyone, only making life better and other "Better centric" topics, I'm going to throw my vote in a shredder and actively tell everyone how awful you are.
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Honestly I expect life to get worse for 0.1% of people.
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If that were true, Trump would have never had a chance to become president in the first place.
Funnily enough, many online leftists think something similar is true for the right.
The right may not have great organization, but they have an astounding ability to put their blinders on for the Ten Minutes' Hate when it's called for. The right's problem is that when they smell blood in the water, THEN the unity falls apart. It's power games for them.
Parts of the left, or what passes for it in this country, would prefer martyrdom to cooperating with heretics.
This is because "the left" tries to unite groups that ultimately are at odds with each other. Anarchists of all types work very well with each other usually, but not with Auth left because they have bad praxis and care about being in control of the movement. Likewise it's difficult to align with social democrats who think electoralism and reformism is a solution and stifle direct action.
Likewise Auth left and social democrats tend to infight, even within themselves, because their hierarchical praxis causes power play friction.
It's simpler than that - the left has principles, while the right has unity and message discipline driven by deference to authority, a victim complex fear, hate, and thirst for power.
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I take great offense in you saying that tankies and socdems infight, lol. (I mean, I get it, they are both statists, but I feel on a emotional level most socdems feel more for anarchism than for leninism.)
I would be an anarchist if I weren't socdem. The problem with anarchism is that it only works on a very small scale, where people know each other well enough to work on mutual understanding. That wouldn't work on a very large scale due to people having their own ideas. I was told before that anarchism is basically the norm for most of human history and thus it could be implemented. Well, look around, aren't we already living in anarchism under the nation-state model? Even though there is the United Nations, most of their power is non-binding and could easily be ignored by a more powerful member. And thus we are already living in anarchism; and it's not working as idealised.
I'm more anarchistic in personal beliefs but am willing to embrace social democrats to get some benefit.
The idea of the greatest social good for the largest group is more important than trusting everyone to follow the correct policies when given power. I also personally think that state power is incompatible with anarchist beliefs.
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Well if meant to in the context of the occasional big tent movements. I don't think most socdems think much about anarchists at all except when it comes time to scold us for not voting.
Yes, and I think that when together in a big tent, socdems would associate more easily with anarchists than with leninists. Especially with syndicalists, for example.
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Organized left = isn't part of the cult
Meanwhile there are 3 fractions for each 2 left wing people.
I'd say fuckers problem isn't that we are organized but maybe; we're not a bunch of rock sucker's mixed in with a bag'o'rascists.
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You’re just saying that because of the time the communists took a break from a revolution against monarchists to shoot at other communists. Or because of the other time they did that
Well, I think that there's actually something to this. I've been involved in a lot of organizing spaces, and there's this "our backs are all up against a wall so we have to work towards a common goal of achieving a workers state and not dying due to climate change" vibe going around lately.
As usual this isn't something to be taken as an observation of reality, but an attempt to create a reality for conservatives to be afraid of...
It's "the big bad left" all organized like an army ready to steamroll your beautiful conservative values! Of course it has no bearing in reality, but that's not the point. The point as always with them is "be afraid of the left!!"
Can't have a conspiracy theory if you see your so-called oppressors as atomized, alienated, confused, and largely helpless.
But then the trick fascists always pull is to describe their enemy as simultaneously weak and strong, brilliant and foolish, hyper-surveillant and utterly blind.
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