Colour me shocked. Glad to know we wasted so much time trying to negotiate with what may as well be a bunch of shit-flinging apes when we could have been putting more focus in more deals with the EU, establishing CANZUK, and literally any other endeavour that doesn't include the U.S..

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago

They think we're fucking idiots. The whole US government is corrupt with chronies making billions off chaos, whether it's the middle east or Canada. So every Monday the US has a deal with Iran and by Wednesday they are bombing the straight. We watch gas prices bounce up and down 20 cents a litre daily.

Trump does not want a stable deal with Canada. He didn't want it in his first term, he doesn't want it now.

[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 20 points 3 days ago (2 children)

It's not a waste of time. We need to do what we diplomatically can (while making other plans).

[–] OliveBrittle@piefed.ca 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

You can't really do anything diplomatic when the other side continually showcases they lack any respect for diplomacy whatsoever.

The moment the man in charge literally called himself an idiot when asking who'd ever sign a deal like CUSMA, it was an admission that they don't care. We got hit with tariffs for reasons that weren't based on facts. We got rid of the digital services tax as a concession already. We already had the CRTC roll back a decision to triple financial contributions to Canadian content from online streaming services. Then came the Gordie Howe Bridge dispute where we made concessions for tolls on a bridge we paid for. We were going to concede even more with the removal of alcohol bans.

Yet, it's just now that Carney and the Liberals realise that this isn't worth it? Any progressive in this country could have told you this from the get go.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago

You can't really do anything diplomatic when the other side continually showcases they lack any respect for diplomacy whatsoever.

The Americans aren't the only ones to consider.

Everyone other country who Canada (and the USA) has a deal with, or is negotiating with is also watching.

They can see who is being reasonable and diplomatic, and they can see who is being a shit flinging monkey that can't be trusted.

[–] some_designer_dude@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

How is it not a waste of time? What value could come from negotiating with someone whose entire brand is “I make and break deals all day, everyday”? We waste time and effort of actually useful people on our side, while they fling shit whether we show up or not.

You’re stuck in the past. “Dealing” with the US is a waste of resources, including time. That country might as well be gone until / unless they somehow redeem themselves, which is going to take GENERATIONS, not years.

[–] festus@lemmy.ca 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Politically, Carney needs to signal to voters that Trump is the reason we can't get a good deal, not the Liberals. You and I already know that, but my conservative voting parents don't. If Carney had walked away day 1, many voters would be thinking that maybe the Conservatives could get us a good deal.

I think there was other value too - I think if we had walked away months ago, tariffs like this would have been imposed even sooner. Delaying tariffs like this is providing real value for Canadian exporters at the relatively cheap cost of some politicians' time.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago

Politically, Carney needs to signal to voters that Trump is the reason we can't get a good deal, not the Liberals.

It also signals to other countries the futility of dealing with Trump, and that it is possible to stay strong and walk away from the Americans threats and buister.

It also demonstrates to anyone watching internationally that Canada can remain reasonable, reliable and diplomatic in our negotiations.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago

If Poilievre was PM, we would have a deal, and he would have killed EU and Asian trade deals, and he would have legally changed his name to Peter Hairyhare.

[–] nyan@lemmy.cafe 11 points 3 days ago

I think the idea was more, if we could patch something together with the people who were actually negotiating (not Trump, he doesn't have the ability to look at anything in detail) and get it to hold for six months or so, that would be six months more to diversify our export markets. In other words, our government has been trying to buy time. Which didn't work this time.

Whether buying time for some of the industries under threat is justified is a whole 'nother crottle of greeps, but the pressure there is coming mostly from small subsets of the Canadian electorate, not from Americans.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago

when we could have been putting more focus in more deals with the EU

That has already been happening since Trudeau was PM.

The government can do more than one thing at the same time, y'know.

[–] Tyrq@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 days ago

Not wrong, but it's hard to ignore the shit flinging apes that have been our most natural trading partner since we share the largest land border on earth.

It is unfortunate to have to spend as much energy as it requires to maintain even a semblance of care for it though