deaf_fish

What is the difference between fascism and ultra-fascism? Everything you listed for ultra-fascism can and does occur under fascism.

I’ll reiterate that I reject the premise as a false dichotomy

Great, what option am I missing? Without a democracy what options do we have other than revolution (I also don't like but it is preferable to no democracy)?

with the option of 20 years of fascism there’s a chance of ending up like modern Spain and a possibility for some people that I love and care about to survive (and continue to fight for a more just world)

I get it, you are afraid of losing your love ones dying or being sent to a camp. Me too. What stops that from happening under fascism? Are your family and friends white? Listen, non-Jew Germans got put into camps too at Nazi Germany. Some people are more safe than others, but no one is safe. Due process is already gone. You're either with them or against them, and my friend, this post you made is more than enough to send you a very fun place if they find you.

It’s easy to get myopic and not see or empathize with the millions that would be impacted.

I am not, I hate this. I have already said this. Empathy is what drives me to accelerationism.

There’s 340M people in the US, 170M of which require a prescription medication at a given time....

My friend, the US has already started a trade war with the world. There isn't really any coming back from this. Even if I wasn't an accelerationist, people are already going to die. Lots of them. The die is already cast here. Fascism started the trade war.

Sure, the intention looks better but, by measure of total human cost, it is kinda hard to see accelerationism as the lesser of evils here.

Do you not think fascism kills/harms people or do you not think the US is a fascist state? Listen, to be a moral net good, all accelerationism needs to do is to harm/kill one less person than lasting fascism would. I think that is pretty doable seeing as US fascism will affect the world.

As the proverb goes: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

Right back at you Friend!

Additionally, (I can’t emphasize or repeat this enough) there’s no historical data to suggest that accelerationism doesn’t just end up with straight-up fascism

I agree, also, the US is currently (already) a fascist state! Do you think Trump is going to let an election remove himself from power? I am open to reverting out of my accelerationism if I feel like we are in a democracy again. So we will have to see how midterms and the next presidential elections look. But it isn't looking great.

None of it is ok/acceptable. It's about minimizing harm. It's picking between eating a shit cupcake or a 3 course meal of shit. There is no non-shit option.

What would you pick, 20 year of fascism or 1 year of accelerationism? If you choose 20 years of fascism to keep your hands clean, then you are the one who is "fucked up".

I don't disagree with that. Why leave that to the market which doesn't optimize for anything other than more money and whos actions are opaque? Happy, healthy, and productive societies cost money, money that can be spent elsewhere. Slavery is efficient and profitable.

If some organization is going to have the power to make or break me, I want them to be transparent and democratic. Not a rich person who has never worked in their life trying to make more money using whatever means they can get away with.

What vulnerable populations would be harmed by accelerationism that wouldn't be harmed by a powerful fascist US?

I see. Sorry I took it the wrong way.

I think that is what we have been trying to do and I think we will continue to do so. Suffering gets people to look for other answers, when they go looking I hope they find ours. If they don't well, we are headed to a revolution either way. I am not looking forward to a revolution, but I don't think we can avoid it at this point in time.

I can't predict the future but we are speed running fascism. Hitler would be proud.

If economic pain gets us to stop, good! If it doesn't, then what will? Why should the world let America continue to cause harm to not only itself but the world? Should we have let Nazi Germany keep going?

What? Yes, the environment can tell because there would be less pollution. The motivations are different. Do you think worker controlled industries would use the same tactics to over produce and polute the areas the workers live in? No one would benefit from that.

I'm not saying we would reach zero pollution but there would be a lot less pollution.

I have no problem with running water and electricity, most reasonable socialist would agree.

American healthcare is capitalist. It's insurance companies and for profit hospitals. That's why it's bad. Healthcare is an inelastic demand.

China isn't a Democratic State. I'm not arguing that just having one guy handling all the economic planning is a good idea.

There's a difference between industrialization for people and trade versus industrialization for money and power. One helps everyone, The other only helps capitalists.

I wouldn't necessarily look at China and USSR and say they are a good alternative. I prefer a more democratic socialism. My problem with capitalism is specifically the lack of choice of the people. We spend 8 out of 12 hours on average working for a company that we don't get a vote in.

Yeah, so we take AI out of companies who only want to make money even if it hurts people and give it to a democratic elected government which will use it to help people or they will be voted out

We can choose a less shitty power structure if we want.

So we can have solar and nuclear oligarchs instead of oil oligarchs. Yeah, that would be slightly better

How old are you? Did you go through COVID? Capitalism doesn't do disasters well at all. Every cost is minimized. So emergency supplies go unmaintained. If it doesn't help the stock price annually it doesn't get done.