this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
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    17
    Linus does not fuck around (lemmy.one)
    submitted 2 years ago by AdventuringAardvark@lemmy.one to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
    33 comments fedilink hide all child comments
     

    An oldie, but a goodie

    top 33 comments
    sorted by: hot top controversial new old
    [–] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I feel it's equally important to point ot that Torvalds recognized his toxic behavior, apologized for it, and took steps to rectify it.

    In an email to the Linux Kernel Mailing List, which also addresses the kernel update of Linux 4.19-rc4, Torvalds writes: "I need to change some of my behavior, and I want to apologize to the people that my personal behavior hurt and possibly drove away from kernel development entirely."

    "I am going to take time off and get some assistance on how to understand people's emotions and respond appropriately."

    [–] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    That was seriously admirable. From memory he actually did improve quite a lot after that as well.

    [–] erev@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

    I've heard he's not perfect but he doesn't lose his temper anymore and has only gotten better with age. I respect anyone who can self reflect and introspect and come out a better person.

    [–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    Yeah, shouting at your subordinates in public is utter bullshit.

    [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    So is breaking the userspace

    [–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    So two wrongs make a right? Or could this have been a civil private email instead? And if civil private conversations aren't working, then it's time to part ways.

    [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    This probably helped others not to make the same mistake

    [–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    Of working with Linus? Yes, it probably did.

    [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

    What? I'm talking about breaking userspace?

    [–] pohart@programming.dev 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    A civil public email would have been fine.

    [–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    Acceptable, yes. But a good manager knows not to shine a spotlight on the mistakes of the team. There's nothing to gain keeping it public that you wouldn't also gain by keeping it private. But your team's morale is kept high if you sing their praises instead of their shortcomings.

    [–] pohart@programming.dev 1 points 2 years ago

    I get what your saying, but i feel like the aggressively public development model means that more could be public here than i would accept on another team.

    [–] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 years ago

    Not going to touch the general toxicity as it's something Linus has already apologized and worked through with professional help, but I love the attitude when it comes to responsibility.
    Far too often it's easier to blame someone else for error.

    "No this is our problem, and I'm ashamed you're trying to blame someone else for it" is respectable take

    [–] TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    Like, I get how it's funny, but I would hate to get this kind of shit from someone I respect. Would really mess me up, personally

    [–] caseyweederman@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago

    So publicly, too. People have quit over it.

    [–] mlg@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

    I feel like people are overlooking the fact that this is typical early internet behavior lol.

    I get that its the linux kernel mailing list, but I'm pretty sure Linus was way more wild online than in person because that's how public internet forums and IRC used to be like.

    Stallman has also said some equally braindead stuff lol.

    [–] InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    So I recently had a conversation with some who though Linus Torvalds (kernel) and Linus Sebastian (Linus Tech Tips) was the same person.
    That was a pretty funny and confusing conversation.

    [–] properlypurple@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

    Imagine Torwalds doing reviews of old CPU coolers and completely losing his shit 🀣🀣🀣

    [–] rtxn@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

    The trick is to listen to the pronunciation. Linus of LTT pronounces it as Linus, while Linus of Torvalds uses either Linus or Linus, but he doesn't mind if people call him Linus.

    /s

    [–] RobotZap10000@feddit.nl 1 points 2 years ago

    "You are HIV aladeen"

    [–] computerscientistI@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

    I wonder if the guys here who are moaning like the snowflakes they are about Linus' way of conveying the message (not the message itself) are from the US? I sometimes really wonder about the US mindset. The boss is critisizing you justifyably but in an inadequate tone? Hell breaks lose. But as an employee insisting on healthcare, an adequate number of days on paid time off, unionazing or at least have an able workers' representation? Nah, that's unheard of.

    How about having some priorities? Grow a pair and chose your battles more wisely. The boss criticizes you? If he's right, own up to your mistakes. Want some rights you are actually entitled to? Yeah, that's what you fight for.

    [–] jose1324@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    What a toxic ass message. If he was my boss I would not tolerate this. It's weird how many dickriders here are defending him here

    [–] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 1 points 2 years ago

    What a toxic ass message

    dickriders

    Oh the irony...

    [–] Synthead@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    For sure. It's funny in a way, but this is not a great way to treat folks that are trying to contribute, often on their own time. This could have been rephrased in so many other ways where Linus doesn't come off as a total jerk, and still be "right" with the same message.

    [–] Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    No one is arguing that Linus isnt a total jerk.

    Just like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and even Ol Musky...

    We can be better. We can both be a community that is extremely direct with our core values and code it well, but we can also treat people right.

    It's a reality in many places. And it's thanks to the many many many assholes that I listed above that brought this change.

    [–] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    This is a message to an @redhat address, as you might notice. Mauro gets paid to work on the kernel and is not a noob who doesn't know better, either, he's a maintainer who fucked up basic maintenance.

    [–] Synthead@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    Neat.

    Linus could also be kinder.

    [–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    I just wish for all of us to become more accustomed to working on ourselves instead of projecting the need to develop virtue on others. Linus actually did it, doesn't mean that he was an asshole before. Brash, sure, crass, yes, but actual assholes don't calm down as easily.

    [–] maniacalmanicmania@aussie.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    It's disgusting that this post has not been removed, has a 96% postive vote ratio, has over 1K upvotes and is sitting at the top of All after almost a day.

    This isn't a Linux meme. It's a celebration of abuse, abusive behaviour and abusive people.

    All the people ITT condoning or making even the slightest accommodations for this behaviour ought to be ashamed and need to take a good, long look in a mirror.

    What are the moderators of this community thinking? Are you reading this stuff? Do some of you agree with any of it?

    Of all the things to celebrate about Linus and Linux this is not one of them.

    There is no value in leaving this post up. There is nothing to be learned or gained by revealing just how gross some supposed Linux supporters may be.

    Does anyone ITT seriously think this is how Linus or Linux developers want to be remembered and celebrated for their dedication and decades of toil?

    Do you think anyone that's been on the receiving end of this kind of abuse on the job or in the home wants to jump onto Lemmy today to see this celebration of abusive and awful behaviour.

    There are no excuses to be made. It doesn't matter that this happened many years ago and that Linus has managed to overcome behaving like this. The post itself is now the issue.

    The many comments that have made even the slightest excuse for this kind of behaviour are awful and damaging to the reputations of Linus, Linux and the Linux community.

    [–] dullbananas@lemmy.ca 1 points 7 months ago

    Literally the most controversial lemmy comment in the search results for "the" on lemmy.ca

    [–] fl42v@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    Yeah, those mailing lists used to have some quite funny stuff; my favorite so far is smth along the lines of "whoever thought this was a good idea should be retroactively aborted".

    But, on the other hand, damn it's toxic. Should've really sucked to work on the kernel back then.

    [–] jadedwench@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

    I was curious as I couldn't help but laugh, but damn dude. That is rough. Hilarious looking at it now, but I feel bad for whomever was at the receiving end.

    Of course, I'd also suggest that whoever was the genius who thought it was a good idea to read things ONE FUCKING BYTE AT A TIME with system calls for each byte should be retroactively aborted. Who the fuck does idiotic things like that? How did they not die as babies, considering that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on?

    [–] Fraylor@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

    That's some quality venom.