So, what you are saying is, I need to make a jazz band that does 30 second songs.
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Punk jazz
A jizz band
Jizz is already a musical style, its what those aliens play in the cantana in star wars.
That'll be John Zorn's band Naked City. Try their album Torture Garden, featuring such tunes as Jazz Snob Eat Shit
Sounds like it can be up to 59 seconds long and still work.
"It's like, we get it, you can blow a trumpet. Wrap it up, Elton John!"
Oh yes, Elton John, famous trumpet jazzy.
(Love the good place, just watched that episode)
Smooth Jazz yes, but when there’s improvisation I tend to nope right out. Smooth jazz, big band, ragtime - all play the same way each time but for different focus (like big band/swing is for dance).
The only time I’ll tolerate improvisation jazz is while eating dinner when it’s socially acceptable to ignore the music and leave when done eating.
Improvisation can be really good when you get someone talented who's actually applying music theory (many jazz musicians do this).
But when you get avant-garde, the whole point is basically about throwing music theory out the window. It's supposed to be radical/deconstructionist/post-modern, but personally I think it sounds like crap.
Some people think I'm being snooty when I say this, but it sounds like dadaism on a saxophone. Some people claim to like it that way, but I'm pretty certain they're just saying that to be edgy.
Philosophically, it's the jazz equivalent of noise metal.
I thought it sounded poorly at first, but when I took a class from an experienced Jazz improvisation instructor I was able to build a deeper appreciation for the sound.
I personally feel it’s something that can grow on you the more you try to connect with what idea or emotions the musician may be trying to convey. Especially since that’s what the musicians are trying to do when picking up on each other’s signals while playing.
People listen to music for different reasons. Sometimes it's to be entertained, sometimes it's to experience something else.
If you really understand music theory, you'll see that it's a science, with math at its core. The art is in how the science is applied.
If a painter forgets the color wheel, they won't be able to mix colors to get what they want. They'll wind up with a bunch of browns when they wanted greens and purples. If they forget the fundamentals like lines and forms and negative space, they'll end up with shapeless blobs.
I mean I guess some people like abstract art, and that's fine. But let's not pretend music theory is just some relic of colonialism. It isn't eurocentric to believe harmonious and rhythmic music sounds better than music that isn't.
To each their own.
I think of more avant garde stuff as a whole different category: like you're tired of just listening to good music and now you want something weird and interesting that may fail but definitely tried.
You know like a rough indie video game or movie that might not be the most fun but tries to communicate something (to varying degrees of success).
Edit omg reading on, this thread turned into a whole thing. Music people...
Yeah, I mean it's perfectly valid if you want to listen to avant-garde. No one's stopping you.
My whole point is that the whole point of avante-garde is to reject musical conventions. That's not an opinion, it's literally what avant-garde is.
There's a philosophical argument to be had about what defines music, and how does it differ from noise or sound?
Some people might say dadaism counts as music, others might say it doesn't. And that depends on your definition of music.
I'd put it this way:
Does an audio recording of a construction site count as music? Or is it just noise?
Mind you, one can edit the recording and rearrange it into something musical. However, doing this would require an understanding of rhythm, tempo, meter, pitch, harmony, etc. These are the fundamentals of music theory which I describe as a science because they're mathematics at their core, purely quantitative and descriptive.
They tell you nothing about how to use those concepts together to create "good music." They simply define the components of music itself. How they're arranged is up to the artist, and that whole range of expression is the art side of music.
One could argue that music doesn't need to be melodious or harmonic or rhythmic or any of that. But if that's the case, then how is it different from noise? Does that make the unedited construction site audio "music"?
I suggest giving Keith Jarrett's Koln concert a listen.
It's the first piece of jazz I've ever been able to sit down and listen to from start to finish.
"You just ain't never had it done right."
Old musician's joke "Do it once, it's a mistake; do it twice, it's jazz."

This poster jazzes.
"Repetition legitimises"
This happened to me the first time I listened to BADBADNOTGOOD.
Got through most of an album and thought "whoah, I've been listening to jazz for ages".
Tried some other jazz and thought "Hmm, maybe not"
I'm no expert, but I think badbadnotgood is jazz fusion so that makes sense.
And keep looking for jazz you might like. It grows on some of us, over time.
Absolutely, I'm constantly on the lookout for new music. While the music I listened to as a teen had definetly ingrained in me my tastes I have noticed there's a time and a place for most music.
The thing is, there are many kinds of jazz.
Smooth jazz? Cool.
Cool jazz? Sweet.
Progressive jazz? Alright!
Avant-garde? Err...
"Jazz isn't dead. It just smells weird. "
~ Frank Zappa
Jazz gives you 30 seconds of “I get it” followed immediately by where is this song going and why am I being chased?
I think folks are just listening to the wrong jazz!
Here's a few modern jazz or jazz fusion song recommendations from me worth checking out:
'Ramen! Yes!', 'XYZ', and 'Balloon Pop' by Hiromi's Sonicwonder (also credited separately as Hiromi and Sonicwonder)
'Desire', 'Knowledge', 'Prologue', and 'Fists of Fury' by Kamasi Washington
and it's bossa nova which I guess is technically samba not jazz, but I say close enough to still recommend 'I Took the L' by John Roseboro
Bonus recommendation if you're open to heavy music (this is death metal jazz fusion!):
'Eb (D#)', 'IQ69Exaltations,' and 'deBroglieNeverExisted' by ByoNoiseGenerator
If my mind wanders away from it then back, I lose track and get annoyed, but it's likely because I wasn't paying attention and lost the plot a bit.
Jazz speaks in a way. If you drift from it a bit, you lose the conversation.
Joined! Love jazz. Been trying to learn jazz guitar for the last 10 years. In phases, granted. This time around I’ve stopped caring about scales and have embraced voice leading and chromaticity. Finally starting to get it, I think. Also, there’s this amazing channel on YT: things i learned from barry harris
Oh! Guitar is my second fave instrument. I'm no player but I dig Charlie Christian and Johnny Smith the most. Check them out if you've not come across them yet.
All yall need some Hiromi in your lives. Also some Snarky Puppy
7 1/2 minutes into that Snarky Puppy, all are one in the celebration of the groove. Brilliant!