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cross-posted from: https://quokk.au/c/mop/p/775737/sustainable-cities
Depending on where you live in the world it's just not possible for some people to live in one of those idealist walkable cities do to systemic segregation. Can't afford to live there but that particular area still needs workers. This ideal community is reserved for a certain class of people.
All the more reason to make every community better. If quality of life is improved across the board, then everyone gets access to the benefits and you get rid of the risks of gentrification.
Putting up some bollards to pedestrianize a street isn’t expensive.
I’m not sure where race comes into it.
It’s just car-brained car supremacy.
I never mentioned race.
So what is the “systematic segregation” you mention? Whether they are left-handed or right-handed?
I assumed they meant based on wealth
Correct
If one place is really nice to live while a other is rather shitty, of course everybody will want to live in the nice place, which drives prices up, which means the rich people get to live in the nice place and the poor get to live in the shitty place.
The solution is of course to make all places nice. But ultimately you've got to start with one.
Yes exactly. The point is to make whole cities like this not neighbourhoods or small areas. Europe is much closer to the 3rd picture than USA but not there.
I think it’s possible to accept that, while a city without cars obviously preferable, the electrification of vehicles is still a net positive given the enormous inertia of car culture.
The only problem they will solve is air/noise pollution and maybe power efficiency. But for urban planning the space usage is the same, and traffic jams are the same. Also they move the same ammount of people.
They are a small upgrade in general (maybe more for cities with high air pollution).
Not much noise reduction. After 50 kph, tires are louder than engines anyways.
Sure there are the occasional busted/"tuned" exhaust comes out very loud, but the majority of the din is just wheels on the road.
My experience living 1 block away from an interstate in Denver was that 95% of the time you barely notice the highway. The 5% of the time is exhaust noise and subwoofers.
While this is true, cars of any kind shouldn't be going faster than 50k in a town/city anyway
Yeah even the air they push makes more noise. Electric buses are another story though.
It embeds the existing dominant individual, resource-wasting mode of transport even deeper into the culture (and urban planning). That makes it a negative for urban environments. Bit different story in very sparsely populated areas.
Is it? I think if you include opportunity cost and "well i switched to an electric car now i falsely believe the problem is solved", not so much.
It's just easier, in some ways, because it's a smaller change.
Net positives mean something, though. We want a 10/10 solution, but saying an achievable 6/10 is the same as no change at all is exactly what the people who oppose us want us to think. That if we can’t get rid of every car on the road, we might as well have done nothing. That’s terrible! Of course we can make things incrementally better!
We all want cars to generally go away from what should be walkable areas. Replace them with public transit and bikes and just walking. That kind of culture shift is going to take generations. Less smog and carbon dioxide being spewed into the air is a good thing. (Provided the trend towards solar and wind power continues.)
It’s easier because I can make the decision myself and I can do it without much planning or coordination. I replace my car periodically anyway, so there may be no real difference (in my case my ice car was nine years old and I needed something for my teens to use, so an EV was the logical choice)
Modifying a city for walkability takes many years, decades, even assuming everyone else agrees, politicians are supportive, and there is some sort of budget. We can’t afford to just wait for the ideal solution
Assuming people get electric vehicles when their combustion cars reach end of life and not just trading in a four year old SUV for its electric variant, the I think it is.
Ignoring the ideal wherein privately owned vehicles decrease over time, of course. Continued development of EVs will be a benefit in terms of battery technology and motor efficiency, among other things.
The efficiency of an EV SUV will never be anywhere near the efficiency of an (electric) bicycle. Motor and battery efficiency also improves for bicycles. The bicycle will always need only a fraction of the resources, in materials, electricity and occupied space.
Yes I agree. I didn't imply an SUV is somehow better than a few bikes. My comment wasn't an argument for cars nor continuing car dependancy, only touching on a benefit from their manufacture - negatives often do have silver linings.
In a non car dependant future, I'd still expect the buses and ambulances and whatnot else to be electric.
Okay, but point of order. Are there any poor people on that train? Cause if there's poors on the train, I'll take the $2B bumper-to-bumper concrete blasphemy instead.
..........sarcasm? Or asshole? I can't tell.
Pretty sure it's sarcasm.
Asshole, sometimes confused as sarcasm
I call fake, no smog anywhere in the first panel
I like the comparison between the two car dependent panels being the 'same picture' meme, though the electric one should have a few extra columns to support the weight.
Otherwise, 15/15 comic.
Electric car weight is trivial in comparison to heavy trucks, which roads are already constructed for. Electric trucks are another conversation, but currently are still restricted by the same gross weight limits that non electric trucks are, so there really isn’t any reason that there would be extra columns.
I agree, though there are buses and trucks in those panels, and I'd hazard a guess that if the national fleet of vehicles went electric, the gross weight limits might get bumped up a touch.
If I'm remembering right the United States federal limit is 80,000 gross, but there's also a per axle specification. If electric long haulers started becoming more common, I could see the limits being bumped for the whole vehicle, while adding an extra axle or some such.
Electric bicycles are EVs. I dislike it when people say EV and they mean EC. It's mostly carbrains who do it.
Trams are also EVs, but when somenone says EV they mean cars today.