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Edit: grammar in the alt-text
Well since the fear of death is so seared onto our existence, and since we've already experienced non-existence, doesn't that imply that we're fundamentally so afraid of not existing because we've experienced not existing and it's horrible?
Check out the science fiction novel The Reality Dysfunction by Peter Hamilton.
In the distant future humanity finds out that an afterlife exists for every sentient beeing. The problem is that the afterlife is fucking terrible. So bad in fact that the dead souls would do anything to posess a living body once more.
I really liked it.
Death isn’t the problem. The transition otoh can be awful.
I subscribe to the idea of consciousness as an emergent property of a complex system. And the consciousness currently typing this just happens to be “me” at the moment. Eventually this meat sack shuts down and this consciousness emerges in a newly formed system elsewhere. Maybe another person. Maybe a giraffe. Maybe some life form in some galaxy we can’t even see from here.
It’s not cosmic. I don’t take any life experiences with me. I’m not some eternal being learning lessons about the universe with some eventual higher-plane goal in mind. It’s purely utilitarian and just how things work.
Being a giraffe might be cool tho…
I think that view would equally make you all currently existing giraffes, so you don’t even have to wait! There’s not really a meaningful distinction between emergent properties of current systems and those of systems after your meat sack rots.
When we were nothing we had no concept of being something, so we had nothing to lose. Now that we are something, we have the concept of loss, and in life loss is usually painful and saddening. I feel like it makes sense that we would imagine the loss of our whole selves as being painful/sad, whether or not that's actually the case.
So the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
FOMO, mostly.
Bro, think of all the void parties you’re missing out on right now by existing.
Will the Cosmic Owl be there?
Is it even a party without them?
When you get to be old enough, you realize everything is just a repeat or remix of what you've already experienced. FOMO will die with that realization.
This is such a smooth brain take. Imagine being narrow minded and arrogant enough to believe there are no new experiences outside of those you've lived. No one in the history of human existence can truthfully claim that.
dude, i've been old enough. people are creating new every day. go experience it. not everything is television
I would miss out on all the new experiences that would happen if I wasn't here lingering like a fart
I'm gonna stick around for as long as I can
It's not the fear of ceasing to be—that can sometimes seem downright inviting—it's the fear of how my death and subsequent absence would affect the people who love me. That's the only thing that's kept me going when things have been bad.
The meaning of life, to us, is chemical. You do something evolutionarily advantageous, get a chemical atta boy.
We are designed to survive. Dying is locally a disadvantage to evolution, so we are programmed to fear and avoid death.
And if you want to be more grandiose and a bit philosophical about it - we are the Universe learning about itself. We literally are starstuff - we have been created from the material ejected into space by exploding stars. But we managed to develop intelligence and a curious mind. So, the meaning of life, is to learn and contribute to learning as much as possible.
Sadly, it's all for naught. Either the eventual heat death of the universe, contraction, or something strange like a change in vacuum state will destroy any contributions we could make. That is, of course, assuming we outlast our own tendency to kill each other and destroy our environment.
The pain of dying
I'm more concerned about the transfer point.
it's ok. you won't remember it anyway
I’m not afraid of what comes after death, I want to experience a good death. And I’m afraid that I won’t. And there’s only the one chance.
I want my brain to shut down in a cascade, like they have found by doing EEG scans of dying people. It’s supposed that this cascade may be what causes the life flashing before your eyes and peaceful feelings often reported by people who have been resuscitated.
I want that. I want a good death.
The point of pain where your body shuts down is actually not that bad. I could watch myself die no problem. You don't really experience death anyways. Your consciousness exists in user space but your body functions in kernel space. If kernel space dies, you don't even get a memo. It is all kinda shocking and hard to take in when a super traumatic thing happens like breaking your neck back and a bunch of other stuff. It is like you are not part of it. The pain kinda just fades into a noise you barely hear your own thoughts over. I've been damn close to dead, and only barely recall little bits and pieces while missing most of three hours. I've watched people die from far far less severe injuries. They did not see their kernel space fail. So yeah I don't think it matters. Smaller injuries hurt worse most of the time. The really big stuff passes a threshold where pain is kinda irrelevant.
That actually calms me. Thanks
You’re welcome <3
What is "fact's" a contraction of?
Be welcome to the RAM; Random Apostrophying Movement.
Yes but it's the survival instinct ingrained into our consciousness by the cosmos is kicking in. I've imagined it multiple times and I still feel dread.
Well I hated it enough to claw myself out of it and into this flesh cage. So must be pretty terrible there.
Question for the comments, what is the earliest (aka youngest) you can remember memories. I can remember stuff from being at most 2 years old.
Similar to others, maybe 2 or 3 years old. I was "helping" (probably hindering) my mum paint my bedroom. I distinctly remember waving the paint roller around.
I'm not sure the exact age, but anywhere between 2 and 3, because I spent a lot of time in hospitals at that age, I had some serious issues when I was young. I remember being in the hospital and hating it, and it feeling dark and foreboding. I never understood what was going on and I was scared. I remember my mom giving me a Hot Wheels-sized toy helicopter and truck. I have panic attacks being hooked up to medical machines as an adult, and I hate having my blood drawn or having an IV.
Circa 3-5yrs old. I remember watching some VHS tapes of a couple songs and gumby episodes - also some 'thomas the tank engine-esq' tugboat show that occasionally drives me mad that i cannot find.
I would watch these over and over on the rug in fromt of an old dial-select CRT TV and loved them so much.
But the earliest definitive memory of an event i could pinpoint down to a day/week with a family member would be age 8.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765798/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tugs_(TV_series)
Perhaps Tugs is the show you're thinking of? Makes sense that it was reminiscent of Thomas the Tank Engine because it was created by some of the people behind the original Thomas series.
Holy shit i think that may just be it?! I dont know why i said tugboats instead of just 'boats' in my previous comment because i think whenever i have searched i was looking for something along the lines of 'stop motion boat show' or 'toy boats in harbour show', but never actually saying tugboats.
I remembered them being toys in a port/harbour setting and thought it was some show for 5 year olds in the 90's that wouldnt be captured on the internet and probably only existed in a decaying library archive box now.
Man i love the internet, this has made my day, thank you!
You're welcome, I'm glad I was able to help prove it existed!
About three. The older the memory the less I can rely on it though, since most get mixed with dreams and I can't tell what was real.
Probably about 7 for me. I have vague memories before then of objects or faces, but about 7 years old for things I really remember.
Me too. I wonder if I'm terrible with past memories, or if people exaggerate what they can remember. Seeing people saying that they remember things from when they were 2 or 3yo leaves me both amazed and skeptical.
I won't be able to eat pizza in the void.
The transition is scary.
I’m afraid that there won’t be enough morphine to send me off. Death doesn’t always come quick.
But energy can't be destroyed or something, so that means I am a chubby baby with wings and a little bow and Jesus tells me stories and doesn't molest me ever, for all time.
How certain are you in your prediction that after death is just nonexistence, and why do you believe it?
99.99% or higher for me. There's 0 empirical evidence of any ongoing form of consciousness after complete brain and body death or of any type of intangible soul or other method of consciousness transfer.
We are part of the literal energy of the universe going through an endless cycle of apparently random change from matter to energy, we return to be reused by the universe to build black holes eventually or something. And that the fact we exist at all is beautiful, a sentient being that can perceive and begin to understand the universe gives the universe a glimpse of itself as it has no long term memory. Yet, possibly..
It's but a fleeting glimpse to the eyes of the universe, so make the glimpse you give the universe as joyous and beautiful as possible. And treat others so their glimpses are too. Even painful glimpses are better than nothing to the universe with no memory.