I live in Canada and I once went to a job interview. and in the application paperwork they asked for my credit score. I put the pen down and walked out of there. That was literally the only time it ever happened.
It was an American company...
this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2025
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I feel like that's the type of thing that should be illegal to ask
The system makes no sense if you try to optimize it to get the highest score possible, you will find the differences in a single point have no logic behind it. But banks also typically do not care if your score is one point lower or higher. The number is just a quick reference point to make sure you aren't someone in financial ruin, and if the score is at least mid then they will factor in things like your current income to debt ratio more than the score. If you are a normal person taking out a single loan for a house and probably a car and you know you have stable income to afford it, then you probably don't need to worry about your credit score.
Credit just isn't my thing. It feels like a scam
Not really. Credit can be an incredibly powerful tool in right hands. It's just that a lot of people are greedy and get lured in by banks that do
GET ALL THE MONEY RIGHT NOW
~~pay twofold in a year~~
On the other hand, banking system in general is very much a scam.
Because it is. The rules are written so only the rich can navigate it intuitively
I'm Australian, and this post prompted me to research the US Social Credit system. The score can determine whether or not you're accepted for home rentals, and even determine whether or not you qualify for medical treatments
You need to engage in having debt and credit in order to appease the score.
I bought an apartment recently, and I've never had a credit card or debt of any variety. When I was younger my bank would dip into negatives or reject a payment fairly regularly. In the US that could probably cost me a place to live.
And apparently the entire credit score is built up and perpetrated by these massive corporations? Like Credit Score is not even anything to do with the government, and yet it has such a pervasive effect on people's lives and their behavior.
It's straight up creepy. Dystopian vibes. How do Americans tolerate this?
It's so much worse than I think you even realize, but you definitely nailed some of the key pieces.
It's correct that we don't opt in, that it's strictly not govt, it's corporations (3 of them), and that modern life in the US makes it impossible to avoid playing this game.
Some additional details:
- the 3 companies each keep their own records - usually they match each other closely, but not always
- wrong information in the consumer's credit report is arduous to correct and basically 100% the consumer's responsibility - too fucking bad, whatever outcome this may cause
- the only way to know if our info is being used to fraudulently open accounts is to periodically check these reports (noting the difficulty in correcting them)
- malicious use is such a problem that all 3 "services" ("extortion rackets" is literally more accurate) recommended "locking" one's credit with each of the 3, so no accounts may be created at all
- many stories of kids finding out their parents loaded them up with debt, very difficult to overcome
- the score is a measure of how much lenders can expect to profit off you - financial decisions that are good for the individual are not necessarily good for the score
- evictions, like other records, stay active for 7 years I believe, and having an eviction on one's record makes every part of renting worse and harder
And nothing I've said is even recent insanity, all of that's been true a long time. It's really staggering just how effectively the US has systematized destroying our working class. We've been the global leader in innovating oppression for decades, it's been interesting watching the rest of the world start to catch on just how severe it is here.
How do Americans tolerate this?
Brainwashing. Americans don't realize they live in a Dystopian shithole where, since the 80s, the rules are made by the rich to keep the common person down.
We're coming to the end game of this now.
First off, it's not a social credit score, it's a financial credit score, we're not talking about the system China has for it's citizens.
As with many of these deep dives on Americanisms, what you've found is generally worst case scenarios and also not universally applicable. Some states have restrictions on what your credit score can be used for and how it can impact you, car insurance and rentals being a prime example.
Also, by simply having a credit card (and not using it!) and not having any lapsed debts (collections or reported unpaid bills) you will easily have a score in the mid to high 700s. If you carry a balance month to month but regularly make your minimum payments you will have a credit score in the low to mid 700s. Hell. my wife had 5 bills in collection and still had a 650 before I met her.
As far as credit score applicability, it's often referenced by businesses as a measure of risk. If you have a 650 instead of a 750 your car insurance might be higher because your risk of payment is higher, but we're only talking about 10-15% more per year (US south east). Same with with rental, if you have a bunch of bills in collection or default your score will be bad, but a rental provider will be less willing to provide you service if you have a history of not paying your bills. You should still be able to find a place to live, but it will likely be more limited (for example if you have a 400, but not if you have something like a 650) or you may have a larger security deposit.
Overall your credit score likely won't be an issue 95% of the time, but if you habitually don't pay your bills then your score will go down and businesses that check your score won't want to do business with you. I can't make this clear enough, you have to be deliberate in your actions if you want your score to be low enough to cause a problem. My wife had $15k in student loans, $10k in credit card debt, and 5 unpaid bills that had been sent to collections and she still was in the 600s. The score system exists for a reason, I would argue that it should be a bit more forgiving, but the reason it exists is fair.
Non US citizens might have trouble relating to this, but people in the US take blatant advantage of systems a lot of times. I have a coworker that moved for a new job, but he didn't want to sell his house because he got it at a good rate and time. He listed his house for a decent rate and his first tenant stopped paying after the second month. He waited until 4 months hadn't been paid to take them to court and it took another 6 months to have them removed. Just before they were going to be escorted out by the sheriff they paid him the entire back rent in cash to try to prevent the eviction (they had the money the whole time!) After they were evicted he reached out to the local municipality for the water account and they found out the tenant had bypassed the water meter (basically they were stealing). The municipality then said he had to pay to fix the bypass, penalized him for the stolen utilities, and said that for any future tenants he would have to keep the account in his name rather than having the tenants file it.
American credit score systems suck, but they are generally fair and they prove themselves necessary because a certain percentage of Americans seem to have fundamental problems with following common and decent rules of this world.
I just read an article the other day that said Gen Z has the highest rate of credit card fraud ever seen in US history. As a group they just don't see any issue with ordering something online and then saying it never arrived and reversing the charges. I'm all for saying fuck the system and down with corporate interests, but it's hard to have a functional modern society that casually commits fraud and theft.
Back in my day we just wrote bad checks! (I'm kidding, I've never even owned a checkbook unless it was a starter pad that came with the account)
Good old check kiting, the respectable fraud!
To be fair, the fact that you haven't heard of any Aussie credit is because companies keep it private to themselves. They definitely have financial information on you and utilize it to decide the interest rate on your loans.
Much less horrible than the US dystopia for sure tho
Yeah, I would consider that somewhat "acceptable" usage though. It'd be irresponsible to approve a large loan to someone who's already extremely overindebted, for example.
Sweden's system doesn't have a specific number like the US, but mostly just shows economical health. How many active loans you have, income over the last few years, and if you've had loans go to the enforcement agency. But we have the same sickness as America: if you have had something go to the enforcement agency within the last 3+ years, it'll be basically impossible for you to rent an apartment (as if it wasn't difficult in the first place).
The exact same as the Chinese "social credit" system that people whine about, except this one is capitalism based, so it's ok.
Mine doesn't go down when I call the government a bunch of cunts.
And the Chinese one still goes down if you're poor.
100% correct.
Your government would just imprison you and/or deport you instead.
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Most of these points are myths, but as long as it’s funny, right?
...or the OP believes the myths, isn't trying to be funny, and is legitimately confused?
I'm sure I'll get down voted to holy hell for saying this, but I've always appreciated that the rules are pretty transparent and it was easy for me to rack up a great credit score even before I had a decent income. To me it always felt like an open book test.
There are a lot of bad answers or misunderstandings about credit scores in this thread.
FICO Credit scores measure exactly one thing: How good are you at regularly paying on debt over time? Thats it.
There are some other companies that take your FICO score and make their own determinations from it, but those are not the intended purpose of a FICO score.
ANON is also saying "x raises" or "y lowers" but he's missing one other part. Some of those raises and lowers are temporary meaning for a couple of months only, and those don't have years long impacts.
Most of the big moving pieces are publicly published right on the FICO website too, so you don't have to guess:
So lets look at ANONs complaints through the lens of what FICO scores address:
Using credit lowers your score
I'm assuming ANON means "using a portion of an already established credit line." We can see in the chart that this would increase the red segment of the FICO score. FICO assumes the closer you get to your maximum credit availability, the more you're being squeezed financially reducing your ability to pay on all of your debts. From a lender's perspective, if your debts are piling up, then lending you more is a higher risk.
Not using credit lowers your score
If ANON means "using zero credit" then, yes, ANON wouldn't have a recent history of paying on debt then the Payment History section of the graph would be thin or empty. From a lender's perspective, if you haven't paid on any debt in the last 6 months, how do they know you still have the ability to do so if you want credit right now?
Paying back late lowers your score
Absolutely! Its violating the very purpose FICO is made to measure: How good are you at regularly paying on debt over time?
Paying back early lowers your score
This one is a yes or no depending on what scenario ANON is talking about. Paying back a credit card early DOES NOT lower your score. In fact, it would likely RAISE your score. Paying back an installment loan, lets say for a car, early can lower your score, but not because its early, but because the load will disappear. Without a loan to pay on, you will have less recent history of paying on an installment loan for a car, and 6 months from now a lender may not know if you still have the ability to do so, so you score falls.
Even checking your score lowers your score.
ANON checking ANONs score DOES NOT lower your score. ANON allowing a lender to do a hard pull check does lower the score, but only a small amount 10-20 points and this is temporary about a month or two. Further, do several hard pulls at once, they don't each lower by 10 or 20 points. If you do the pulls close together (within a week or two) it will be only the temporary lowering for a month or two. From a lender's perspective if you're reaching out for new lines of credit, it means you're indicating you're about to take on more debt which could affect your ability to pay on further new debts.
Taking out loans lowers your score
Temporarily, yes, but over time this can grow your score if its in a different loan type or length.
Paying back loans lowers your score
Yes and no, circumstances depending. If you pay back that one loan type lets say a car loan, and you have have no other installment loans, then you will have no more recent history of paying on any installment loans. However, if you have a mortgage which is another type of installment loan, you'll take no hit for paying back the car loan as you will continue to have a recent payment history of paying on installment loans. You could take a hit because a nearly paid off loan looks good for the "Amounts owed" component of the score, but you could use a trick like getting a credit card of the same credit line (and not charge anything on it) to avoid that if you really need to.
Not taking out loans lowers your score
Not quite true. Having no recent payment history means a lower score, but it you already have some type of loan or credit you pay on every month, not taking out more loans will not hurt your score.
One final thought I really really want to dispel: YOUR FICO SCORE IS NOT INCREASED BY PAYING INTEREST ON CREDIT CARD DEBT!
Try everything you can to avoid carrying credit card debt into next month. Interest rates are crazy high and it does nothing to help you. If you put a purchase on a credit card, make sure to pay the full statement balance every month. If you do this, you'll pay zero interest on any credit card purchases.
One weird thing you missed is the "length of credit" though. Let's say you get your first credit card somewhere as a kid, and now you're 40 and haven't had anything else. Suddenly, that bank wants you to pay a monthly fee to keep your account open. If you get a new credit card somewhere else, and cancel your kid-card, your score is going to get hit quite a bit, no?
If you did it "correct", you'd have 10+ different cards lying in a drawer at home to tons of different credit agencies.
It's all an insane game that you have to play, despite the fact that it can usually be played "for free".
Only the Uber wealthy credit cards really have annual fees. For everything else they just expect a minium balance of like 20 bucks. My bank only wants 12.50 in a savings acct and there's no fee for checking or saving.
If your checking acct or credit card has an annual fee and it's not an absurdly high end amex or some shit then it's likely a predatory acct and not a real bank or credit union.
I kept my kid card open for exactly this reason, but thankfully there were no fees involved. The issuer cancelled the card after two years worth of not using it though :(
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It's all a scam, man. Money's just pretend. I converted all my cash to radishes. At least when the economy goes into a death spiral I'll still have radishes.
Real animal crossing strategies
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You know my favorite fact about credit scores? Paying your utility bills on time for your whole life will not raise your credit score one point. Forty years on time every month nobody cares. However missing enough payments on your utility bill that it gets sent to collections will lower your credit score. Kind of makes you want to burn down some buildings doesn't it?
And rent. My last rental had a special offer though: pay an extra fee every month and they'll report your rent to the credit bureaus, raising your score through the roof.
You can report your own rent to the credit bureaus. Hell I report the rent I paided to family in cash and they accepted it and it rose my credit score. You just have to show reoccurring costs and bank statements.
Shitty deal, but yeah, moves like this will save you money.
Dad: "You know how when you and your gf want to learn how something works and you get books at the library and learn about it? (90s, OK?) You can learn how money works."
Lemmy: NOAAWW! Want money want credit! No learn!
Reminds me of a coworker telling me overtime is bullshit because they charge you more taxes and you actually make less money.
Oh honey. That's why you'll never have more money.
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Be rich, have assets held in company stocks, get super low interest loans on your stocks, profit.
Actually, rich people are notorious for not paying back their loans, they can afford the high interest rates.
Credit scores are used to tell companies how much they can earn on lending you money.
Paying back quickly reduces the amount they can earn, lowering your credit score.
Not paying it back obviously lowers the score.
The way I understand it, to raise your credit score you need to slowly pay back your loans, so you pay back maximum interest.
Note however that I am just a cynical IT guy in Sweden with zero actual exposure to US/UK style credit scores, and that I may be talking out of my ass.
100% spot on.
It's absolutely a scam designed to extract even more wealth from the poors.
No joke, I've had a car dealership tell me they can't sell me the car I want because my credit score was nonexistent (no credit history in 7 years). I was paying in full, in cash, literally in an envelope in my hand.
Grand total of 8k, all in 100s, super easy to count.
But no, I didn't have a "good enough credit score" so I couldn't buy that car from them, despite having the money to do so.
Mental gymnastics on that one.
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Credit scores are like... (And I'm sorry about this)...
spoiler
Like The Game
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