complicated
happy i figured it out though
this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2025
86 points (93.9% liked)
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Just do what you like. Do what makes you happy. You have many paths you can take.
My take on this is pretty simple, and manages to alienate tradwifes and transbians alike: gender is a social construct, and like most social constructs worth freeing yourself from. "Assigned" is a key word here, no one is born with an inherent gender to be right or wrong. Sex is a separate concept entirely, currently immutable and relevant only in the context of reproduction. Conflating the two is an immense source of confusion. Being the best you you can be (and defining what that means) is a lifelong process with no shortcuts or easy answers. Allowing a false dichotomy between hard tough exploiter and soft pretty resource to shape your very sense of self is a tragic waste of the miracle of experience. That perspective is useful only to this sick society's goal of total extraction, not our human need to love and be loved
no feeling like other people have
Most people don't really have much of a feeling there either. You just are. If you are cool with who you are, then there is nothing to worry about.
Don't overthink it.
nothing to worry about.
Well I don't really worry about anything, I'm fine with how it is :3
Most people don’t really have much of a feeling there either. Don’t overthink it.
But a question which does arise reading this answer is: If most people don't have a feeling for gender, why does gender even exist in the first place? I view gender as a set of personality traits that are summarized under one term (a gender). If you match the personality traits connected to a certain gender, you have this gender. This makes it easier for people to have a basic overview of your personality without you having to explain much. But if most people actually don't really correspond to gender norms and don't have a feeling for their gender, doesn't gender cease to exist? Isn't it just your name and your pronouns at this point?
E: I know that gender and sex were (partially are) considered to be the same. It's more a theoretical question emerging from the current view on gender, I know that patriarchy and stuff prevent immediate practical effect.
If most people don’t have a feeling for gender, why does gender even exist in the first place?
Gender and Sex were synonyms up until very recently, and many people still consider them synonyms. Gender was the 'nice' way to refer to one's sex.
Patriarchal control mechanism
So how do you “feel” gender?
As a cishet man, I don't. I recognize it, I know my social expectations, I know what the unwritten "rules" are and I am just "comfortable" with it. In that it doesn't bother me enough that I want to change anything.
That doesn't mean I "feel like a man." I don't know if there's such a feeling. It's words we use to describe having comfort with your life and situation, and I bet there are very few men or women or anyone else who feel that sensation all the time. Even though I feel comfortable being a man, there are so, so many things I don't understand, but cannot change.
I would say the way I feel my gender the most is physically and sexually. Without delving too deep into the horny-pool, all I can say is I feel like a man in sexuality. I feel very "male" urges tickling the back of my mind which are very pleasant to indulge in the right circumstances. I have attractions and desires that line up with being heterosexual male and that's probably the only place where I enjoy maleness.
Everything else? It just feels like wallpaper, and I don't care. I wear a beard because I know there are people who like beards and have decided I look better displaying facial hair, but I don't stroke it and say "damn, that's nice man-hair." I would feel better smooth shaved but it makes me look like gumby.
I am the first downstairs with a gun when someone hears glass breaking, not because I like being first in line for danger, but because I know I am larger and well-trained and can probably survive an injury better than smaller humans around me that I care about.
I am the one who does the "guy things" because I am the guy. When I (rarely) get support or reward for specifically male things, it feels good but I don't connect it with my gender. I don't even know what that means. I feel more like I happen to be in this body in this culture and need to do the best I can with it, and feel no strong urge to change that dynamic. No glaring discomfort, but also no real sense of "identity" about my gender.
Honestly, maybe it's because I keep the company of people with a few more brain-cells than the stereotypes you see in media, but my male friends are usually the same. We don't "talk like guys" together, if anyone tried that they would get stared at. Most of our conversations are about healthcare and problems with our homes or backs or family members, real-world, material issues with life more than our gender roles. Most men I know are just "people inhabiting male bodies and roles" and I don't think that's rare, I think it's largely what most people feel.
There are things I recognize that are deeply painful about my gender role, as well as things that give me benefits. If I let myself feel anything at all, it would be a level of despair that no matter what else happens, there is an expectation on me that I will have to work, solve problems and do the hard things in my family/social circle that people who do not identify or "feel" like men don't have to do. I don't get that part on a broad, social level. But lingering on what's fair or not, no matter what the situation, is useless. It's rumination. It's the thief of life and joy. You will never be free of injustice or unfairness. That's not how our world works.
As a nonbinary person who still feels a bit unsure, THANK YOU for this long, well written answer. I'd give you gold points but idk if that's a thing on lemmy.
I'm AFAB but I very often wish I could be included in the mens group, you know? I don't really feel a desire to be part of a womens group tho. In many aspects I don't really relate to many of those expectations like dressing up, makeup etc.
I wanted to die until I got tits. Also growing tits sounded like a good way to not want to die, which I hear is a thought process rare in men.
Ranma 1/2 may have given me some funny ideas as an impressionable youth, but I never wanted to die for them. That's a pretty important difference.
I'll admit two major things here: firstly I was what would have been described in a more medicalized time as profoundly dysphoric. This is not the majority of people now seen as trans. One of the major wins of the trans community in the early 21st century was that dysphoria shouldn't have to be life ruiningly bad to get to have it addressed. Secondly dysphoria got worse over time and I had other signs earlier including phantom breasts and maladaptive daydreaming of being seen as a girl even in my early teens.
Like, I would've probably been able to transition in 1960s America, though I definitely would have had to put more effort in and jump through a lot of hoops including lying about my sexual orientation. But had I been in the silent generation or a boomer I probably would have done it, despite the personal, social, and financial costs.
This is all not to say liking Ranma makes someone trans, just that for people who are questioning to not take those of us with the most dramatic dysphoria as the baseline.
That's a show I've not heard in a while.
And I'd like to add, my interests are largely somewhat masculine coded. My personality doesn't feel masculine or feminine, I'm loud, extroverted, and strong but kind. Or as we say in my family: my mother's daughter. I did have to put in effort as a kid to not get mistreated for being a feminine, and put extra masculinity into my presentation as a teenager.
My everyday clothing is the normal androgynous style of jeans and tshirts, though over the years I've gotten less baggy with it. When I want to look nice I prefer a more feminine look or a feminine take on a more masculine look (leather jacket with bold makeup for example)
Ultimately I do think a lot of society's gendering of everything is kinda stupid, though existing within it I find it easy to fall into it. That said, I can't imagine a world in which I as myself would maintain a more amab style body if given a choice nor one in which with that choice barred it would not cause me significant distress to the point of hindering my ability to live.
I'm trans, and to be honest I don't have a good answer for this question. I have no idea what it feels like to feel a gender, but I do know that some of the things I did experience made me feel very much not like the gender I was assigned. I felt incongruous with my body, and confused with how people viewed me. I later learned that's called dysphoria.
When I saw a speech language pathologist to learn how to talk in a way that wasn't grating to my ears, she explicitly told me we didn't need to work on mannerisms or behavior. I still have no idea what she saw, but I don't act any different than I did when I was a guy. I just get a lot less flak and odd reactions for it.
I don't know what it feels like to feel a woman any more than I knew what it felt like to be a man though. I just know it fits, if that makes sense.
This makes a lot more sense than anyone else has explained it. Thanks for being honest about your feelings. It does help.
I'm an old cis/het dude, and while I've occasionally fantasized about being a woman, it was entirely out of fascination with something else - not identity. I don't necessarily 'feel' male, but being female is incomprehensible to me.
Compare that with a dear family friend. When they were about 13, they announced that they were nonbinary; and two years later, decided they were transmasculine.
What was their trigger?
While presenting as nonbinary, they naturally got mistaken for either male or female. They realized that being mistaken for male was totally cool, but being mistaken for female hurt terribly. They identified with being male, and being female (their AGAB) felt abhorrent and wrong.
So if you don't have some part of your brain screaming "NO NO NO!!!" at you, you're likely an average, 21st century cis person whose ability to access infinite porn has dulled your sexuality a bit.
So don't worry too much.
You can only feel what it feels like to be you, and since you've only ever been yourself you have no point of comparison.
I don't think gender feels like anything. I am trans, I have been both a man and a woman and in my experience they don't feel different. In this moment I feel like myself, just as I did a decade ago.
The things that have changed is that I no longer suffer from a crippling depression with an unclear cause. I have a range of emotions, and can feel emotions correctly. I consider my body to be part of myself.
All the above are now clearly signs of gender dysphoria, but at the time were hard to identify. The depression always has a more plausible explanation. The other two, I barely noticed I had because I experienced that my entire life.
It took me a very long time to discover that I am trans. It took a lot of self reflection to figure it out. Feelings were useless. I did think I would be happier as a woman, but that always seemed more of a logical deduction than a feeling.
Myself as a cis male don't particularly feel a major 'need' to associate with the stereotypical guy things, and enjoy plenty of things historically associated with women. That said though I feel my more native strengths are things attached to men.
Why makes for a gender though seems much more tied to society and the expectations of each, and are really a fluid thing that changes as we go along in the world.
From what I've gathered, neither of us are unusual in not 'feeling' gender. I'm trans (shocker!) and felt dysphoria with my physical body, and biochemical dysphoria in the form of depression, until I transitioned, but I wouldn't say that's really anything to do with gender. In a world without gender, I would still transition because it makes me feel more comfortable, and that would have absolutely nothing to do with gender roles, stereotypes, or labels.
I believe societal expectations of masculinity and femininity have become distorted over time. Conforming to these rigid categories will just lead to sadness.
If you’re a woman who enjoys tinkering with electronics, go for it. If you’re a man who feels comfortable expressing your emotions, do so. Why not explore both while you’re at it?
In matters like these, it’s perfectly fine to disregard cultural norms and follow your own path. There’s no reason to conform to societal expectations that contradict your true self. You don’t need to identify with any specific gender; simply be a human and engage in human activities.
I think gender has become another “tribe” that people naturally gravitate towards and identify with. It seems quite human to desire such social groupings. Thousands of years ago, your family and literal tribe fulfilled this role. Today, we seek similar social connections through other means.
I don't know if this helps but I do very much enjoy being female -bodied, like I loved being pregnant and nursing, love having sex, I enjoy the body I am in. I don't think much about any mental or emotional aspect to being a woman, don't feel particularly feminine or anything like that.
But I suspect if I had been born in a male body, I would feel "off" and wish for a female one.
One more instance where our language around sex and gender really muddies things.
How so?
Sex means a couple of different things:
- Of the physical characteristics that organisms use to reproduce in a way that combines their genomes, which category an organism or a part thereof fits into at a particular time
- The act of reproducing in this way (short for "sexual intercourse," but the long version is rare outside formal scientific contexts)
Gender means even more things:
- A euphemism for the first meaning of sex
- The sex (1) that someone wants to have, usually when talking about someone with dysphoria (whose body does not initially match that sex)
- The societal roles that are placed upon people of a particular sex(1)
Trans people were referred to for some time as "transsexual," because their sex(1) does not match their desired sex(1), but people kept conflating it with sex(2), due to the similarity to words like "homosexual," which is about sex(2). Thus, it was changed to "transgender," relying upon (or potentially creating, I'm not sure about the history) gender(2).
This makes discussion of gender(3) more difficult, especially when it does not align with someone's gender(2), especially when that does not align with that person's initial sex(1).
The person to whom I replied has a sex(1) of female. They also have a desired sex(1) of female, and that desire is somewhat strong. That's helpful for them, because dysphoria (incongruity between the two) is by all accounts quite unpleasant. Their gender(1) and gender(2) are both woman.
Because that person is AFAB and satisfied with that, society is highly likely to assign them the gender(3) of woman. However, while they don't specifically oppose that role, they aren't thrilled with it either. One can fairly easily imagine another individual for whom the role is hated, but who is also satisfied with their body, making their desired gender(3) different from their assigned gender(3).
What do we call that hypothetical person? Anything to do with "sex" is probably out, because that refers to either attraction or body type. "Transgender" is already in use to refer to people who aren't satisfied with their body (or, if sufficiently young, the way in which their body will develop without intervention).
"Gender non-conforming" is probably the closest to what we want, but what if the person wants to conform to a gender, just not the one assigned to them? That is to say, what if this person's relationship to gender(3) is similar to a trans person's relationship to sex(1), rather than a nonbinary person's relationship to the same? We could just use the term anyway, but it's imprecise in this context.
Heck, what word do we use for the person to whom I initially replied? "Cisgender" is more or less correct, but incomplete; they certainly aren't trans in the common sense, but they aren't quite as cis as most people either. "Gender non-conforming" isn't really correct, since they do mostly conform to their assigned gender(3), they just do so out of convenience rather than a sense that that's who they were meant to be. "Agender" usually implies someone who also doesn't identify with a sex(1) or gender(1), which is incorrect.
I hope that's at least a little bit clear. The difficulty in talking about sex and gender definitely extends to talking about talking about sex and gender.
you "feel" it in the ways others treat you. either you're supposed to protect or supposed to be protected
that being said i am not ok with this mechanism but can accept the role (as in: not getting sick from it) society prepared for me
In my opinion, it's a bit of a misnomer, where "feel gender" really means "experiencing joy through gender expression in ways that are not typical of your AGAB". For instance, a person AFAB may "feel gender" by shaving their head, or a person AMAB may "feel gender" by wearing skirts and feminine cosmetics (blush, mascara, etc.)
My relationship with gender didn't so much manifest that way.
Before I came out and accepted myself, I openly told myself I "should have been a girl", but I also believed I wasn't, and that was that. I didn't really feel anything at the idea of femininity. That was my experience of feeling gender
Thanks for sharing, hopefully OP gets some good insight from these responses.
Well gender is just a performance
So either you feel like you are performing it well or feel like you aren't. You can feel like you are choosing the "correct" gender to perform or feel like that label for yourself is uncomfortable.
Those evaluations are made by you or other people, and how you feel about that is feeling your gender.
With my mouth
UwU
Since I'm the privileged default of male at birth and comfortable being a man, I don't have to be made to feel my gender too often.
Women and femmes get catcalled and harassed. I never have. Women get told to shut up subtly or not, and get their work stolen by men. I don't. Enbys non-conforming people might get forced into the Man Box and asked "what are you?" I don't get those questions. So I just get to go about my day not getting my gender shoved in my face.
That said, I'm fairly uncomfortable in highly-masculine situations. Like bros hanging out smelling like shit talking about cars and barbecue and tits. I like a lot of man-coded stuff though, like lifting weights and blasting heavy metal. I also like "softer" stuff like birdwatching and fashion (tho mostly men's fashion).
Never felt anything other than male. Fully support trans people though even though I don’t really understand. I’ve never met trans people
I simply accepted my AGAB
you are cisgender.
I realized that I don’t feel any connection to this gender
this experience lies on a spectrum. for example, genderqueer folks have had their expression scrutinized and oppressed, so gender identity is more of an issue they think about than the average person. basically, you don't have to exist with a sense of fulfilment or pride to be comfortable as the gender you've been assigned. you not having any incongruence implies your comfort level being seen by society as the gender you present.
I just don’t care about gender.
i want to ask if you are certain of this, because simply not possessing any feelings positive or negative about your gender doesn't mean you'd be fine if you woke up as the opposite or something in-between. i'm generalizing here, but genuinely think of how you'd feel if you transformed into the opposite gender while retaining who you are right now. all of your beliefs, passions, interests, social expectations, public perception, and many, many other things are impacted by gender. not in a direct way for some but a guy interested in childhood education or a woman choosing not to have kids would both face questions and assumptions because of their gender. you would also be forced to see your body and yourself differently because others would treat you as the new gender you are now presenting as. still don't care?
I simply accepted my AGAB
you are cisgender.
Huh? Plenty of trans people accept their AGAB for some amount of time before realizing that it isn't correct.
i want to ask if you are certain of this, because simply not possessing any feelings positive or negative about your gender doesn't mean you'd be fine if you woke up as the opposite or something in-between... you would also be forced to see your body and yourself differently because others would treat you as the new gender you are now presenting as. still don't care?
In my case, still no. I mean, it would be inconvenient to explain to everyone I know why I suddenly look completely different, but beyond that, I don't think I'd care. Obviously, I can't know for certain unless it happens, and any experiment that attempted to find out would be absurdly unethical, but I'm as certain as I reasonably can be.
Plenty of trans people accept their AGAB for some amount of time before realizing that it isn’t correct.
my bad lol i don't mean it that way, i meant overall if you are accepting of your AGAB you are living as a cisgender person. you can "accept" it in your mind but remain uncomfortable enough to further pursue lines of questioning, yes, but if you haven't had any incongruence then i would feel it appropriate to say you are cis.
I’m as certain as I reasonably can be.
i get it, but i have been certain of many things only to have lived the opposite result. my point is that you might not realize how relevant your assumed gender is to your overall personal image until people are constantly commenting on it and noticing it.
About the second part: Yup. I wouldn't really care either.
I also don't care about which pronouns people use referring to me. And while I'm completely fine with my body, having a different one sound doesn't sound unpleasant. It actually sounds like an interesting experience when it comes to changing perspectives.
all of your beliefs, passions, interests, social expectations, public perception, and many, many other things are impacted by gender
That's all through societal expectations though, isn't it? You can take any of these things and find that they're associated with different genders in different places around the world and different time periods. I don't think it would make sense to say that a trans person is only trans in a specific place and time.
yes, but so is gender. gender is largely socially enforced. these behaviors and habits will be judged based on how you are perceived.
I honestly feel very similar. The closest I can kinda understand is like a guy at birth wanting to wear a skirt, in which case I say go rock that skirt. Or maybe a girl at birth wanting to feel accepted in certain male dominated activities in which case it's a problem with those activities and not the girl.
I'm a guy at birth, I guess I identify as a guy but it's meh. If I was misgendered at most I would make a overly dramatic joke but it wouldn't effect my physiologicaly.
I don't feel some gender either, but my agab has always felt off, like ill-fitting clothes. Also due to the cultural/societal expectations and limitations instilled during upbringing, which made me further reject the idea of 'being' my agab.
I've come to think that if I had been assigned the opposite gender, maybe I would have felt it equally ill-fitting.
A few years ago I came across the concept of agender and it resonated. It took off pressure of the need for there to be something, where there is nothing, and it's ok.
I'm cisgender, and I've actually done the necessary introspection to investigate myself and think about how I prefer to express myself in terms of gender, regardless of any artificial limitations. I have gradually integrated that into my sense of self. I'm quite comfortable in my own skin, and what could be more sublime? Though sometimes I think I might prefer to have a second penis.
I don't really care about my gender.
but everyone else does. It is very annoying. and they never listen to me because their gender assumptions are so visceral and emotional and they love to shove them in my face and get pissed off that I don't take the 'compliment' they are giving me. whenever i 'open up' about myself honestly I am met with hostility and rejection for not being 'a real man'. this could be as simple as talking about how i like to cook, or read, or ride bicycles.
i also don't relate to the 'privilege' of being a straight male. my gender/sexuality has often been used against me to justify abuse and sexual assault, as well as the policing of my opinions, behaviors, and interests. I simple don't understand why people are so angry at me for me being me and not conforming to some idea they have of 'people with a penis must be this way or we feel entirely justified at screaming and hitting them until they act that way'. which of course, talking about my abuses... results in more abuse because it is 'wrong' for men to talk about abuse, especially at the hands of women. never once has anyone IRL who I was ever open to ever received me positivity about those experiences. oh, and often too about positive things in my life i get the same negative reaction because my gender is not supposed to 'be happy' about the things that make me happy.
it's funny when people go on about 'male privileged' as if we are free from all these expectations and fears of abuse that apparently only women supposedly have. Because I've had them my entire life and frankly I hate them.
Ask her nicely then softly cup from underneath
Do you ever identify with any gender stereotypes?