this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2025
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[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 126 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)
[–] oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 55 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Ea Nasir is a really interesting case study of how one piece of information can be interpreted in two completely different ways.

One interpretation, and the one most people know, is that the authors of the clay tablets complaints are legitimate.

The other is that Ea Nasir kept them as a record of people attempting to harm his reputation. So he could remember who to avoid doing business with in the future.

[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Also ancient Sumer had a pretty decent legal system for it's time, it's entirely possible Ea-Nasir was keeping the tablets for a possible court case. So the ancient equivalent of saving texts from a shit customer.

[–] tomiant@piefed.social 13 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Your honor, I have 500 lbs of receipts.

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[–] MummysLittleBloodSlut@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

So it's like the Lemmy modlog. Maybe it's a log of mods calling out bad users, maybe it's a log of mods lying and power tripping.

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I would give this merchant zero stars if I could

[–] Sendpicsofsandwiches@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Awful copper

Worst trade experiemce of my life. I will not be returning

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[–] Quexotic@infosec.pub 83 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

And flock cameras are apparently easily rooted and repurposed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0gr7Fh6lY

[–] MisterFrog@lemmy.world 48 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

Gonna be downvoted, because apparently this is car brain central, but the amount of mental gymnastics people will do to make red light camera enforcement "bad" is crazy.

The US' private company control over these cameras notwithstanding.

Fuck me, so many people die on on roads, and especially at intersections.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 44 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

The city I work for put up Flock cameras with specific instructions from Council that they were only to be used for identification of cars flagged in active warrants.

Within a week of their installation, police used the cameras to track the movements of someone who filed a complaint.

[–] ArtVandelay@lemmy.world 22 points 2 weeks ago

Fuck the police

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[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 37 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

The US’ private companies

this is entirely the problem, because they're turning over info to ICE and other agencies and it's being used oppressively.

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[–] yourgodlucifer@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I just don't think having this kind of surveillance state apparatus is ever worth it I don't want the government or private companies tracking my every move.

I don't even own a car and I want these cameras gone.

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I heard the ones in school zones actually have 10lb of copper and a chocolate bar inside

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 38 points 2 weeks ago (20 children)

I mean, being anti-authority is fine, but even if you achieve your stateless society, don't you still want your stateless society to still have traffic co-ordination somehow?

Stateless =/= rule-less

[–] paultimate14@lemmy.world 30 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

If only it were possible to transport humans and goods without a network of cameras invading everyone's privacy.

If only that was the natural state of the world for more of human history until just a few years ago.

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[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 28 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

Photo enforcement cameras are problematic for several reasons.

A) It has been shown that yellow lights with such cameras are very often set to a yellow duration briefer than generally accepted engineering practices to increase revenue *1

B) They discourage a rare misbehavior, actually running red lights, whilst causing another to become common. That is slamming on the brakes even when it isn't safe to stop. Exacerbated by A. Better slam on the brakes when it flicks yellow even if you are way too close to reasonably stop whilst going only the speed limit.

People who are caught up by it are almost always those who found themselves a bit too far into the intersection to safely stop. EG those who cross the threshold right as it is changing. There is for reasons of safety a few seconds between one light turning red and another green. At 30 mph (44 feet per second) someone will fully clear a 40 foot intersection in less than a second. That is to say the only people you catch aren't those who would have collided.

They are those

  1. you fucked with the shorter duration yellow oops
  2. people who hesitated because of 1 and slowed but ultimately decided to proceed thinking they can make it
  3. People with poorer brakes and or dealing with rainy conditions reducing stopping time.

C) Most of the money goes to the contractor who owns the cameras. Essentially you are letting a private company prey on your citizens as long as government gets to keep the scraps.

*1 https://ww2.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/

[–] pahlimur@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I'll add one more. They subvert our right to a trial and seeing our accuser. The fines are all supposed to be viewed by some sort of officer that is supposed to show up if you challenge the ticket. The only one I've received didn't have any info on how to challenge it. It was like a bill that obfuscated my right to a trial. Guilt is assumed and forgiveness is ignored. 28 in a school zone in an unfamiliar city, instant fine with no "oops I fucked up" recourse.

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[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

You clearly don't live in and never been to my country (Portugal, which in my personal experience of driving all over Europe has some of the worst driving in the continent) if you think running red-lights is a rare behavior.

Around here, were there are no zero red-light cameras that I know of (unlike other countries in Europe I lived in), it's literally the norm for people to run the red-light for about 30 seconds after it has switched over from yellow. There's even a joke around here that "Green means Go, Red means Stop and Yellow means Accelerate". You will literally get honked at by the person behind you if when you see the yellow light you slow down so as not to run a red-light.

Curiously, in the other countries in Europe I lived in which did have red-light cameras, such behavior was incredibly rare.

Even more entertaining, when I first moved out of Portugal as a young adult I went with that very same behavior trained and not soon after I started driving in my new country of residence (which was The Netherlands) I almost immediately got a €50 fine for running a red light in that way and getting caught by a camera, tried to dispute it, got told "Red is red, it doesn't mater if it has been red for 1 second or 1 minute", paid the fine, learned my lesson and never did it again. Whilst anecdotal, it's none the less one data point of red-light cameras working at making people change their habits.

In The Netherlands they weren't shorting the yellow light times, but that's because unlike in the US were the Law and Politics are a total shit-show, the Dutch actually have specified in the law the minimum time period for the yellow light (you know, because they have politicians which are at least somewhat competent and not on the take) and if city halls had it lower than that all of their red-light fines would end up thrown out in court if it was ever found out (and taking them to court over there is also way cheaper than in the US) same as parking fines get thrown out if the "no-parking" sign isn't properly visible.

You see, the problem you have pointed out is not a problem with red-light cameras, it's a problem with the Law over there, so it's the Law that needs fixing not the red-light cameras.

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[–] MajorasTerribleFate@lemmy.zip 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

As someone else pointed out, the traffic light itself isn't being affected, just the automated enforcement mechanism of the camera. We managed just fine without those.

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[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Traffic enforcement cameras are one of the worst ways I can think of to coordinate traffic.

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[–] Naich@lemmings.world 33 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)
[–] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago (23 children)

They would remove the camera not the traffic light. I don't think that would cause an accident

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[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 29 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

I can condone taking down pedestrian surveillance, but people who drive cars should follow the rules or get fucked.

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[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

On the one hand, omnipresent surveillance is bad and ripe for abuse.

On the other, I feel like the haphazard and selective enforcement of traffic laws by police officers is also really bad. Cops can selectively enforce laws so poor people or black people or whatever out-group suffers more. A machine should be impartial.

On the last hand, no traffic enforcement is probably going to get people killed. So that's not desirable.

Also, fines are problematic. Fines should probably scale with wealth, but also it shouldn't be a revenue source because that's a perverse incentive.

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[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 21 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (10 children)

Taking out speedtrap so driver can self regulate is like taking out ~~CDC~~ FDA so big pharma can self regulate.

[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 79 points 2 weeks ago (23 children)

These aren't about speed anymore, they're all turning into auto license plate readers run by private corporations for an infinite surveillance dragnet

[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 27 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You don't have a speedtrap issue, you have private vulture issue. Signing the enforcement right to private company is a recipe for disaster.

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[–] I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

FDA, but yeah.

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[–] SanctimoniousApe@lemmings.world 21 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Wait until they find out about the gold-plated interconnects.

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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 20 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I'm a little confused, do you want people running red lights in the name of "personal liberty, yeehaw" because that seems like a bad idea.

[–] kuhli@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (12 children)

No, I just haven't seen any evidence red light cameras are effective.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/

Also I don't like everything being under camera surveillance, so I need a strong justification to be fine with more of it

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[–] pahlimur@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago (12 children)

Big problem with these is profit motivation. They are usually operated by a for profit business that the city contracts to. One of the cities near me had a few installed. The company made 5 million a year in fines, city ended up with pennies. The road is built like a 40mph road but has a 25mph speed limit only where the cameras are. There is no money to update the road to actually make it safer because it all goes to the company operating the cameras.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

That's not to mention they usually change the timing to catch people off guard for more tickets. Someone went around in my area timing a bunch of different lights and found that every light with the ticket generating cameras had yellow lights shorter than the legal limit for the state.

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[–] tacosanonymous@mander.xyz 15 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

We should also state how much that is in dollar bucks.

[–] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Just about $23 per camera where I'm at

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[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

Bright shiny copper is just under $4/lb where I am. It varies by location and what your recyclers will pay.

[–] glitchdx@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

There seems to be 2 main camps in this thread.

Fuck the police, and fuck shitty drivers.

Both camps are correct.

[–] utopiah@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

Sure, remove the red light but please also remove cars.

[–] tomiant@piefed.social 10 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

That's like $27 per camera or so.

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Government surveillance tracking device you mean? Enrich the local cops devices? Over half of violations monies collected goes to the corporations that market them to local and state officials with lavish dinners and vacations devices? Financial incentive to calibrate them to flag innocent drivers knowing there is little to no recourse against the company devices? 5.5 lbs you say?

[–] faizalr@piefed.social 8 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)
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