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Why is anyone listening to the US anymore? They are turning themselves into North Korea and losing any credibility they might have had. Who gives a shit what they say anymore?
Because Europe has had half a decade to fill the void and they can't get it done and continue to act like cost efficiency is the name of the game.
Europeans seem to want to rag on about the US being irrelevant while being completely unwilling to put their money where their mouths are.
I am very supportive of Europe, but they need to wake up to that reality and stop bickering about pennies.
They should have been at wartime production years ago, and yet they still don't even have a 5th let alone 6th gen fighter jet.
The fact that the USA, who is currently chopping its own legs off, is managing to provide just about equally to the Ukrainian war effort to you, who are literally neighbours, should be embarrassing and sobering, but instead people just keep complaining and expecting the US to both shut up, and fix it.
If there is a peace deal to be brokered by outsiders, it should be through NATO without the USA. Europe still vaguely recalls what came of the Versailles Treaty, so EURO-NATO would at least try to make sure things turn out alright.
Any deal that is conceived by the USA is inherently bad, because the Childfucker In Chief wants to molest the world and to fill his pockets with misbegotten gains.
How exactly is this going to be worse? Putin keeps a bunch of territory, gets welcomed back into the global economy, Ukraine gets hard limits on NATO membership and they're on military in exchange for a weak non-guarantee of security. You could sum the whole thing up as 'let's all agree Russia won'.
It's bullshit. It legitimizes military conquest of territory. The only compromise should be that Russia stops their illegal invasion, Russia's internationally held funds are 100% given to Ukraine for reconstruction, and the border territories get to hold a vote to decide which country they want to be a part of.
As this is now, it's just legitimizing the occupation. As an American I am very disappointed that our President would push such a thing.
Yup. And the only reason for Russia to insist Ukraine never join NATO would be so Russia could attack them again in the future without consequence.
Yup. And the only reason for Russia to insist Ukraine never join NATO would be so Russia could attack them again in the future without consequence.
Exactly.
... and the border territories get to hold a vote to decide which country they want to be a part of.
Have you seen Russian 'democracy' before ? Gee whiz 100% of people voted to join Russia shocked
It’s bullshit. It legitimizes military conquest of territory
Look, don't get me wrong here, I'm Ukrainian on my fathers side, but that line of argument doesn't quite hold water when you look at what the US has been up to for the past 100 years. In some sick sense, I get it, it's like, Putin is saying, fuck you, if the US can wage wars of conquest, so can we.
Clearly not as successfully, but I understand how you could defend that rationale. Jesus christ don't think I'm defending the Russians here, I'm just saying, for real like. Slava Ukraini.
US is certainly no angel. Saying that as an American.
At the same time, there's a difference between shit we did in the 70s (and so did many other nations including RU) and today. In this millennium the closest we came to conquest was Iraq but we dumped that pretty fast.
'We're going to conquer this territory by force and add it to our own' hasn't been an internationally recognized valid move in decades. We should not validate it.
or the argument holds water and also the US has consistently been in the wrong for the same reasons
NATO needs to consider the US as an enemy and act accordingly.
Whilst Fatboy McPaedo is sitting his obese arse in the ~~w~~shitehouse everyone may as well see the usa as an extension of russia.
I'd expect NATO would have to expel the U.S. (or the U.S. would have to fully, officially leave) before the whole of NATO could consider them an enemy.
What the fuck is the US doing?
Well it's obvious but how in the fuck
Face worse? They are going to get invaded a second time? Because yes, that is the fear and why they won't sign shit.
"HEY, BULLY, AND NERD, STOP FIGHTING EACH OTHER! I DON'T CARE WHO STARTED IT, JUST GIVE HIM YOUR LUNCH MONEY OR IT WILL BE WORSE TOMORROW!"
Second? Crimea was the first, this is second.
Russia is hoping third time is the charm
This has been going on since russian empire was not afraid to call itself that. The label changed multiple times, the imperialism did not.
In before ML claim that only the west can be imperial. There's a reason all of Russia's neighbors are Leary of them. And that former conquered states abolished most of the Soviet iconography placed in their states. And are fighting tooth and nail to stay separate. The USSR was one of the most imperialistic colonizing countries of the 20the century. Colonizing and conquering most of their neighbors.
Aaaah shit man I forgot how many times they've already done that, my bad. Like, remember that time when they signed a sovereignty agreement with Russia in exchange for their nukes post 1991? I remember that, in that they said that, the agreement was that, give up the nukes to Russia, and you won't be invaded.
Then they got invaded.
Twice?
Am I still off by the count? Because I seem to recall something from the 2nd World War where they starved the country to death but I'm drunk so forgive me if my memory is foggy I'm sure someone will set me straight
prior to 2014, trump has flynn working for the russian backed ukrainian PM at the time too.
Not WW2, but in 1930s there was a massive famine caused by Soviet fuckups. One could argue whether it was intentional or mismanagement (or intentional concealment of mismanagement), but either way, a whole lot of people died that didn't have to.
The best way to get the truth is to confidently tell a falsehood online.
Slava Heroyam.
Yeah, it's a well known Murphy's law
This is a hail Mary for Putin. He knows his goose is cooked if Russia doesn't win, and the only way he can win is if Trump forces Ukrain to surrender.
The bad news for Putin is that everybody already knows this, and also knows that Trump can't really do much except act like the assclown that he is. The Europeans aren't going to reward Putin. And they know that Trump's days are numbered, and each of those days is going to show more cognitive decline and increasingly grotesque displays of megalomania, even if one of his many other crimes and scandals doesn't render him incapable of further outrages.
And whether it's Trump or Putin who goes first, the other will soon follow. They are propping each other up, and the whole arrangement is unstable.
Unfortunately the EU is sucking up to Trump nonstop. Now weakening the GDPR for example, and promising billions of investment while receiving nothing in return but a weak promise that there will be no further tariffs.
You know when all those conspiracy nuts yelled about "globalism"? They thought it was some underground "one world government" shit coming to fruition by some secret cabal of super wealthy billionaires, and then it turns out, well, economy is more powerful than any democracy or form of government in the world, so the guy with the most dollars get the most say.
Suddenly, you have a world of suckups who do anything for money. Look at that fuck Van Der Leyen. These people are not meant to rule. Shit, they are not fit to run a fucking company, it's just echoes of Feudalism where everybody builds their own economic little fiefdoms, because functionally, there is no way for laws to keep up with the dynamics at play in finance, and since finance and power are interchangeable, you can leverage either, to get more money, or more power, or both.
Europe's idealism runs deep, but over time, capitalism will always subsume efforts according to its own machinations.
They own the means of production, they own the product of production, and they own us. Big club, we ain't in it.
I have ideas for a solution. Subscribe to my newsletter lol.
I think they were kinda right about globalism. Though it's not in the form of a secret organisation meeting in a big dark Dr Evil lair. They don't have to meet because their goals are the same. Make as much money as they can, ideally not off each other but off the little guy. Though sometimes there's a bit of a fight between them, they are mostly aligned.
But the end result is really globalism and it has given large corporations way too much power.
Globalism, as far as I am concerned, is capitalism. Capitalism is that great equalizer. It supersedes national law and our democracies. Money is power, right? If money is power, then capitalism is a form of government, and it runs the world. Every country. All of them. The market controls our countries. Gotta grow, or you gonna hit recession. What does that mean, grow? In perpetuity? More production? More goods? More mined materials? More more more more more? And if you don't grow enough on a quarter by quarter basis, then you lose.
What is the end game of capitalism?
When are we done?
What is the purpose of all this?
Is anyone steering this ship, or are we just seeing where money takes us?
Because it feels like the latter might be the one Big Case we need to fucking fix. Wealth. Our conception of ownership, our markets, our monetary systems, they need a big fucking overhaul. The only thing keeping capitalism in check is laws. But capitalism bypasses laws, because if you have money, not only can you get away by buying yourself out of consequences, if you have enough, you can rewrite the very laws themselves.
Look I know I've been rambling a bit in this thread, but I swear, it is time people wake up to the realization that if we wanna survive as a civilization, the concept of money, wealth, and production needs to be fundamentally revised.
So MAGA actually stands for Make America Subservient To Russian And Israeli Interests? Who woulda tohunkit
MASTRAII?
I wish US officials the worse fate possible.
Agent Krasnov doing his thing. One argument more for Europe to build up it's military power and finally get their shit together.
Get it already. You should consider the current US administration as a group of imbeciles.
And who exactly are these leaders working on behalf of? Because it sounds like this absolutely dogshit deal favors the Russians and gives them everything they want. They’re holding Ukraine at gunpoint and threatening them to accept a very unfavorable deal. With the Russians beside them.
And if they do sign the deal, it's probably installing a Russian puppet regime, squeezing every penny by USA and Russia to pay back the war and a new invasion in 10 years.
Dear Krasnov - Quit Piggy.
US says a lot of things often contradicting itself these days. If most of the world hasn't stopped listening to what it has to say, it soon will
It would be nice if I could say I hope the Europeans will tell Trump to shove his idiotic "plan" where the sun don't shine. If only they weren't a bunch of fucking spineless twerps.
They would if they could. They need time to rearm and be ready to take on the east on their own.
OK boomer.
