this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2024
7 points (100.0% liked)

Technology

77649 readers
2765 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Corigan@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think people often hate steam for their success, but fail to see it's the result of customers'choice in a free market. (I see it enough I'm not sure if people get paid to hate on them... To ruin the thing they have most of customer respect)

Steam is not publicly traded and does not act like every other publicly traded company. It invests in its customers experience and custtomer come back for that. It does not nickel in dime or use its position to hold its customer captive and enshitfify its product. It's not an ISP...

It invests in hardware and software development it believes the industry needs not to make a massive profit but to be a champion of what gaming should be (Linux, steam link, index, bug picture, steam controller, steam deck) These products are experimental and usually sold at or near cost not to make money but to prove to the market there is a need and a demand.

They are often a champion and voice of the gamer.

They could have tried to be like Bethesda and tried to monetize their workshop but they didn't.

Sometimes they're quiet and we don't hear anything about what they're working on, but that doesn't mean they aren't working on things.

I can't imagine pc gaming would have survived and resurged without steam. And I hate to think what it would be like if there were just 5 epics, origin, Uplay, whatever other launcher. I think gaming would look like mobile games..,.. which takes a 30% cut too and can only sell in apple or android markets.... No one bitches there and they offer no services.

[–] Lets_Eat_Grandma@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think people often hate steam for their success

I hate them for forcing me to use a kind of DRM which will stop working once their servers stop.

Halflife was just fine without steam. Adding steam seemed to be a way to stop players from sharing CD keys.

[–] homicidalrobot@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can play: Half-Life 1: Source Half-Life 2 Half-Life 2: Episode One Half-Life 2: Episode Two All with steam closed. Original half life expansions aside, your take is senile. I suppose alyx could've done without it.

[–] Lets_Eat_Grandma@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Okay, but what about all the games that have come out since steam has launched and ONLY have online-only drm options?

Not talking about MMOs because those are their own beast. I'm talking about a huge amount of games though excluding mmos.

I don't mind ~~digital distribution~~ DRM platforms, I just want a choice. I want licenses to be portable and I want to be able to re-sell licenses for games I do not wish to own any longer. I don't want to be bound to just console games either.

[–] TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think resellable licenses are a great idea. It works with physical media because it will have flaws that affect quality and price, but I don't see how that would work for digital without screwing over devs. I can completely get behind transfers or trades with friends or between platforms, but not really for resale.

[–] Charzard4261@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can get the transfers between friends part, but why between platforms? That makes zero sense from a business standpoint.

The only way that would work is to have game companies manufacture and distribute an external storage medium themselves, because platforms sure as hell won't say "Oh you bought a license on another store? Sure, you can use our CDN for free!". And now we've almost reinvented game CDs.

[–] Lets_Eat_Grandma@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I would gladly pay a couple bucks a month to use a digital distribution platform of my choice.

[–] original_reader@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How many times has this been posted now? Genuine question: why is this such a big deal?

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Genuine question: why is this such a big deal?

These are not all video game companies, but for reference:

AMD: 26,000 employees
EA: 14,000
Facebook: 84,000
Netflix: 11,000
Spotify: 9,000
Twitter: 7,500

[–] nalinna@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Yep. But it also seems like people are so shocked by the data that maybe they're missing the moral of this story, too? ...sure it's impressive that Valve has done so much with such a small workforce, but I think the reason they've been able to move so quickly is because they have such a small workforce. Companies get slow because they get big...I don't care how much you tout your SAFe processes; you will always lose efficiency as you grow. It's the difference between steering a canoe vs a cruise ship...the more you grow, the more you have to fight against momentum. So, my takeaway from this is that they figured out the secret to continued success as a maturing company, and good for them.

Now, I say all of this with sincere hopes that they don't work their smaller number of employees to death and ask them to take on inappropriately burdensome workloads. Because if that's the case, they should fuck right off with the rest of their peers.

[–] capt_wolf@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

From what I understand, they basically have a very open work structure. People are free to work on what they want, when they want. They actually are against high workloads and do everything they can to prevent employee burnout.

Source

I can't say if that extends beyond the development teams to other departments like server management, but everything I've ever seen about them says they're all just in it to have fun, make cool shit now and then, and of course make tons of money. The fact that their sales platform basically just prints money helps support that culture, obviously.

[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If the alternative is making a half life 3 that people don’t have the passion for then imo it’s working.

[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or there’s not enough people with passion, since their passion is hats, or the higher ups have their preferred people they give funding too, part of the linked articles mention this stuff.

[–] Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

I don’t want forced passion. If an artists doesn’t want to create, they shouldn’t be forced.

So is game making an art form, I think so.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it speaks to developing for gaming over developing for infrastructure. What does it say about gaming where, a company that has a healthy attitude about work in general, has staff that prefer to work on addressing Steam bugs over working on a prestige game?

[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Do they? They have some pretty buggy and downright unplayable games due to griefers for years now so how is that even remotely true? And I’m sure their employees would rather build something new than to keep fixing old stuff, who wants that? That’s a pretty weird claim to say people prefer.

It’s like people bury their heads and ignore everything bad about steam/valve.

Steam/valve/newall seems to have this weird thing on lemmy, every other billionaire is cancer, but all hail GabeN, can’t have a discussion about anything here it seems without it getting derailed by people with rose glasses on.

And did you read anything posted? What’s “healty” about anything from my screen grab?

[–] uis@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

They have some pretty buggy and downright unplayable games due to griefers for years now so how is that even remotely true?

TF2 got bot-free recently. Let's see how it lasts.

[–] capt_wolf@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's a bummer, but also not entirely surprising when you consider Half-Life 3...

[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah it’s great to think letting your employees do what they want is good, which it is, but yeah everyone’s going to have their own idea and want to work on it. So who gets funding, etc.

It’s strange the person said they move fast, that’s not something I’ve ever heard in reference to steam/valve before, and so many upvotes? What’s going on here.

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 1 points 1 year ago

This is such a simple idea that people seem incapable of understanding

Big companies can't innovate. They're pulled in too many directions and create bureaucracies that stifle the individuality needed to push beyond known techniques. At best, they can iterate and imitate - and even that is very hit or miss

There's this idea companies must grow or die - but in reality, companies grow until they can only perpetuate themselves. They start to only make sense on paper

Individuals drive progress - they need time and autonomy

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

But it’s basically a store front and they contract almost everything out. Like how many people does it take to run some servers? They don’t make games, the steam deck and the VR are the few things they’ve done. And that could be done by a couple dozen engineers and contract everything else.

Like how many employees should they have?

Okay I shouldn’t have taken a shot at their game making ability, but it legit fucking sucks and they acknowledge it, people bash them for it sometimes, take it easy guys.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

They don’t make games

DOTA and CS beg to differ. Spotify is a "storefront" that produces nothing but has about 25x more employees.

[–] lmaydev@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Twitter runs a single web application.

They also do make games.

[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Isn’t most of steam pages like the discussion, store page, forums, guides, workshop etc are self moderated by the publishers and developers?

And yeah they made Alyx in the last decade? They make hats for old games, that’s it it seems.

[–] Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

they have mobile games too, and a tech demo for the steam deck, and the known hero shooter in the works

basically the people who think valve doesnt make games didnt buy into any of their expansionary market projects (mobile/vr/steam deck). They make games, just ones you dont want to play/cant play

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] maxinstuff@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hint: none of those companies need all of those employees.

[–] imecth@fedia.io 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

These stats don't include subcontractors and as such they're very misleading. For example, who do you think produces the GPUs inside the steam deck? Hint: it's not Valve.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] bitwolf@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Steam is successful because they're the only company in that market treating customers right.

I'd be very upset if the courts side with EA.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They're also one of the few (possibly only) that has not gone public.

Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

[–] tea@lemmy.today 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are plenty of private companies that are shitty too. It definitely helps being private (and maybe is a requirement?), but you also have to have the right owners for private companies to be good.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

For sure... Just one more reason to adopt co-determination laws like those in Germany.

Public or private, if the board of the company actually contained literal workers, it could make things so much better.

[–] gjghkk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

and because they are not publicly traded company.

[–] bitwolf@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago

Well that's why they actually do right by their customers. That said I definitely agree

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

8500 million in revenue and 350 employees.

Gaben owns 6 yatchs and spends 70 to 100 million maintaining them.

There is absolutely nothing that differentiates valve from the other stores front to justify this. The whole store front industry should be tightly regulated. No billionaire should exist and if you find yourself defending one, it just means they have a good marketing team.

This is having a negative impact on the industry and the only ones benefiting are Gaben, Nintendo, Microsoft, Epic, etc. it's clear collusion.

Can't wait for all the downvotes and simps coming to defend him because "Gaben isn't your average billionaire".

[–] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Quick! Let's add about 800 useless Managers!

[–] suction@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Who each will need a couple of consultants from McKinsey, PWC, you name it, to do their jobs!

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm reading, Steam takes 30% cut, offer practically nothing but a download system, store front and crappy forum instances per game. Largely unchanged since 2012 Basically, they're just taking the money and running, almost pure rent.

[–] Pringles@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Feel free to start a competitive game store. There's a reason why gog, origin or epic hardly make a dent on Valves bottom line.

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, the solution is obvious, break the Valve monopoly into 40 smaller companies and put Gaben in prison.

[–] knitwitt@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Valve created a fantastic entertainment product that people voluntarily choose to use. Why would you want to turn something people already love into something completely different? Counterproductive - especially when direct distribution is essentially free and universally accessible.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Godnroc@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thor from Pirate Software has a great video breaking down how Steam works and the lawsuit that claims they are ripping off consumers. It's very educational.

Of course, there is no requirement to use Steam. Game makes can publish their game themselves without a platform at all, which very few do. If you say they actually need a platform, there is the value they are getting for that 30%. If they weren't getting anything of value, then they could do it themselves and benefit instead, which most do not.

[–] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Thor simping for a company like he thinks they'll pay him, absolute cringe.

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Thor

You certainly did call him out exactly as he is. An obvious industry shill "we can't make non-live service games anymore because licensing boohoo"

load more comments
view more: next ›