Unpopular Opinion

No one is a bad person for their thoughts, thought crimes do not exist. Your behavior is what matters. Idc if you have “horrible” thoughts all day if you don’t act on them or let them influence how you treat others who cares? Humans don’t have control of our thoughts we need to stop worrying about them being “wrong” what you do is what matters

The ancient Roman/Latin phrase for what OP describes is:

En vino, veritas.

In wine, there is truth.

The phrase goes back even further to the Ancient Greeks, the exact same meaning in Greek ( en oino, aletheia ), but the Roman/Latin phrase is more well known.

People have known for literal multiple thousands of years that... people do not say stupid shit because they are drunk, the alcohol made them do it... people say stupid shit when they are drunk because they have these stupid thoughts and beliefs all the time, but are normally smart enough to not say them out loud.

I don't see the contradiction between the meme and drunk behavior. What it's saying is that you're not responsible for what you think, only how you behave. Mel Gibson is not guilty for having antisemitic thoughts, but he is responsible for expressing them.

There is the issue that only sober people decide to get drunk, the same sober person who reflects on previous drunken behavior. I guess what I'm saying is that getting drunk and impregnating one of your daughters is awful, but no where near as bad as getting drunk and impregnating the other one the next evening.

No, altered states of mind don't stop our own thoughts. In fact, I would argue that a conditioned response is more like an inhibition. As in, I believe getting drunk reduces the likelihood you'll use a conditioned response, not increase it.

But science says the exact opposite is true. A drunk person has lower inhibitions so they express what they think easily. They don’t sugar coat it or try to hide their thoughts. This picture is a feel good thing which might be true in some situations but is generally wrong and is defending bad behaviour.

Been reading the last sentence for four minutes straight.

“First Thoughts are the everyday thoughts. Everyone has those. Second Thoughts are the thoughts you think about the way you think. People who enjoy thinking have those. Third Thoughts are thoughts that watch the world and think all by themselves. They’re rare, and often troublesome. Listening to them is part of witchcraft.”

I'm not following you. What you think and what you say or do are entirely different, right? We think all kinds of things very quickly about all kinds of topics, and just as a practical measure we can only say or do do a small fraction of those.

So right now I'm not seeing the Mel Gibson connection, because that was a claim about his actions.

It's probably more fair to say that it's important to understand WHY you had that thought. Is it conditioning, a past bias against someone else, an unfair stereotype that you are perpetuating, or a lack of understanding?

I have to do this with my anger as sometimes I'm short tempered with someone only to reflect and realize that I'm angry with something else and taking out my frustrations on an undeserving bystander. I try to apologize if I catch myself doing this.

I like this idea. I don't know how modern cognitive science corroborates the idea or not.

But just to tuck this away in the thread, not to derail it: I think the point of the text in the image is much simpler, as the last response is meant to make us understand. The real "first thought" is "I'm a bad person." After some reflection and careful analysis, the poster comes around to, "I'm just a teensy bit hypocritical."

We can forgive ourselves for knee-jerk reactions if we put effort into not letting them poison our relationships with the world and other people. I have no idea if that should apply to Mel Gibson.

(Me, drunk)

1st thought: I have to pee

2nd thought: I really have to pee.

3rd thought: I love you guys. Also, I have to pee.

As someone who's been (in the distant past) known to engage in questionable behaviour while black out drunk, you still need to be somewhat of an asshole to act like this. So he did mean it, even if he normally doesn't want, and would be ashamed, to act this way.

In my case, being an asshole was influenced by my work environment, so I'm doing a lot better today, both on the asshole and the drinking front.

as a person who’s wife is a very very mean drunk - like physically and emotionally - I just have been conditioned to think “those are the things she really thinks but hides. i am worthless and poor.”

The first thought is the conditioning done by life, the second thought is the conditioning done by oneself as we grow to become the person we want to be.

I needed this, thank you.

Being conditioned to think racist thoughts is essentially what racism is. Nobody chooses to be racist - you become one as a result of your genes and environment. That pretty much applies to your entire personality. I'm more in the camp that believes drunk people are just being honest. But I'm also in the no-free-will camp, so I don't guilt people for being who they are. That doesn't mean I like them or want to be around them, but I don't act as if they could have been any different. Still, that’s not to say people can’t change - they can, if they want to. That’s the key difference between what you want and what you want to want.