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A religious person whose religion explicitly forbids homosexuality commits violence against queer people. I too wonder at what the motivation could possibly be 🙄.
Yes, not all religious people are this way. But don't forget with things like this, it is almost always a relgious and/or far right person. The sentiment with rape of "not all men but always a man" applies here too.
No, women can be rapists too.
Can be, statistically much more unlikely to be
If religion caused ~~violence~~ attempted murder I'm not sure why it's not way more common. Evil shit heads are always looking for an excuse.
Edit: it was super unclear what I meant so I had to change my wording so that my point could possibly be understood /s
Domestic violence is pretty common amongst religious and far right people, no?
Your original comment I replied to was only talking about violence, not murder.
Way to move the goal posts there buddy.
Can you show me where in your original comment it is that I was supposed to instinctively understand that you weren't actually talking about religion causing violence in general?
It must be exhausting getting angry all the time becaise people can't read your mind.
There was that attack by an Arab atheist a while back, in Germany no less. Just saying for the sake of it.
I was curious about his motivation, so I did some reading to find out.
In a video he made some time before the attack, he was very upset about someone stealing a USB stick from his mailbox. He's former muslim, anti-islam, pro-Israel, and generally right wing, though he called himself a leftist. He admires Alex Jones and Elon Musk. He tried to get close to the AfD while atheist organizations distanced themselves from him due to his extreme views. He tried to explain his motive for the vehicle attack during the trial, but was rambling, incoherent, disconnected.
He was sentenced to life in prison, which seems reasonable to me.
Religious extremism doesn't sprout up in a vacuum. It is created by a lack of resources and opportunity. Resources and opportunities that have been taken from people by foreign/Western governments that refuse to let the middle east be stable. The West has collectively overthrown dozens of democratically elected governments in the region going back at least a century. If your grandparents can't ever remember a stable life and you lack the resources the learn about your circumstances, you will use the only stable pillar in your life as the basis for your revenge.
understanding where something comes from doesn't save you from its immediate effects
just because you know someone is robbing you because they are in need doesn't mean you should give up right away
This shit happened in the EU...they have support there, stop making excuses for violent extremist. The middle east has been at war with itself way before the Soviets invaded...yea you forgot about those guys invading Afghanistan didn't you...
Before World War 1 the middle east was under the rule of the Ottoman empire. So they weren't at "war with itself". Part of the terms of the end of if ww1 was most of the region was carved up by the victorious allies. One of the things they did was install Western friendly governments. The British also forced Israel on Palestine. Then the US overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran leading to the inevitable blowback of the Islamic Revolution in 1979.
Maybe you should read some history before you make ridiculous claims.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Middle_East
You should read how the Ottomans took power...the middle east has been warring for centuries. Let's stop acting like it's western powers that have caused all this. We shouldn't be there at all, but let's stop with the "west is to blame" for all of this.
So the middle east was just as violent as Europe? Ok Cool. The middle east isn't inherently more violent than other places. To say that is incredibly racist.
People are people. They need resources to build proper lives. Lacking that, they believe they have to fight. Western governments figured out last century that in order to win the global economic war, they need oil. So they need governments friendly to them in order to secure access to those resources. Acting like this is just an ancient conflict that has no answer is ignorant.
Where did I say Europe hasn't been at war with itself for centuries? Get you're Whataboutism the fuck out of here. You suggested the middle east was at war and violent because of western powers. I provided facts that, that's bullshit....and now you're pulling some Whataboutism bullshit.
There are multiple states in the middle east that are using said oil to be more prosperous...so you're point is bullshit again.
And please tell me how ramming a car into a pride parade is somehow fighting the good fight...
You're being tolerant of the intolerant.
Ok but you did say that the middle east has been at war with itself to dismiss my point that the middle east is affected by the Wests foreign policy agenda for them. And also you implied that the middle east is inherently more violent than other places.
Yeah these are governments friendly to the West doing this and they are doing this at the cost of their local population. That money isn't being used to build community, it's being used to fund sheikhs agendas.
I never said that. Violence isn't good. I can say that unequivocally. I'm just saying is that religious extremism is created by the Wests foreign policy. Also the immigration crisis is caused by the Wests foreign policy. The root cause here is whatever motivates that foreign policy.
Because you are acting like the middle east and the terrorism that's born there via religious ideologies, is a western caused issue. It is not. Today, the middle east is more violent than other places.
There is the west being blamed...again. UAE exists and has a very high quality of life. You should check it out.
And I'm telling you, that's complete bullshit. You're once again, saying it's the fault of the west, that this happened.
Ok let's talk about some history
Why does Israel exist in place of Palestine? Because of the British policy of Zionism.
Why did the Islamic Revolution happen in Iran in 1979? It was a direct response to the coup orchestrated by the CIA in 1953.
Why did the Taliban orchestrate 9/11 despite being allies with the US against the Soviet Union in the 1980s? Because the CIA instigated the war covertly, destroyed millions of lives and empowered religious extremist warlords to dominate Afghanistan for the next 40 years.
To say the West isn't the root cause here is ignorant and lacks a historical perspective.
Bro you're complete bullshit. I'm sorry your precious West has done so much evil across the world.
Yep...and did that cause this extremist to ram a van into a pride parade?
The IR happened because the shah was a dictator, and Khomeini promised a more democratic country. It's why you saw a ton of Persians from the left (students) supporting him. The CIA did have a hand in the 53 coup, but acting like the gov. Iran has now is better is a fuckin joke.
Wait wait, you think that 9/11 happened because the CIA gave the Taliban weapons and money? You do realize that 9/11 wasn't really done by the Taliban right? The Saudis had the biggest hand in it, and bin laden ended up being the fall guy.
Again to say the west is the root cause is ignoring all the other countries that the west has been fucking with. India...the literally just got their independence from the British less than 100 years ago. A country of 1.4 billion people, and they don't seem to be fucking ramming vans into pride parades... what's your excuse for them?
O...o I'm dealing with a tankie...fuckin hell.
It's not a whataboutism, it's a necessary comparison to make it clear that the Middle-East is inherently just as violent as any other part of the world. Though seeing as we're all predominantly from European/Western countries, the comparison to Europe is especially relevant, considering the rampant bigotry and misconceptions toward the Middle-East and the Arab peoples.
You linked to a super long Wikipedia page without even bothering to quote any relevant information. Regardless, as I and the person you're replying to mentioned, all you're really proving is that the Middle-East isn't any more violent than Europe, Asia, Africa, etc.
And besides, the original point brought up was about the modern Middle-East, not its past. As it stands now, the Middle-East wouldn't be even remotely as chaotic as it is now had the West not taken such gratuitous advantage of it. You can spin the facts any way you want, but you can't get around that.
And why do you think said states need oil to be prosperous? The economies of those nations aren't happening in a vacuum. Globalization has been a thing for centuries now. Western countries need the oil, and the Middle-East has the oil. Add capitalist greed into the mix — a western product — and there you have it.
What was that about whataboutisms again? Because you're literally doing the exact same thing here. Completely unrelated. Not only that, but nobody here ever even insinuated violence like that is a good thing. What a weird thing to fabricate.
No it's Whataboutism. Please show me this rampant bigotry that is all over the EU... it's not. It's a fringe section that's popped up because people are tired of being tolerant of the intolerant.
Please, go to the middle east and let me know how that works out for you.
Yea, because India is pumping out terrorism like the middle east is...and so is Africa. Both of which are being taken advantage of..even today.
Wait wait, so your excuse for the places that are prosperous is because they're exporting oil and not driving vans through crowds of LGBTQ+ persons...at a pride parade. Hot take there...next you're going to tell me Canada is prosperous because they export steel and wood to other countries...and oil... I don't recall the last time someone in a van with a maple flag on it rammed a bunch of LGBTQ+ persons at a pride parade.
You're kidding right? They absolutely suggested that this attack is because of the west. That's all you and the other guy have been suggesting. That they're fighting back, because the west has been over there for a century fucking with them. As I said before, India literally just gained independence...in 1947...yes this past century, less than 100 years ago...they don't seem to have people migrating to the EU and ramming vans into pride parades.
Yeah? Assuming you’re not just being disingenuous, that’s entirely unrelated to your original accusation. You said, and I quote:
Ascribing a direct material cause to a terrorist attack is nowhere near the same as claiming it to be “fighting the good fight”. You’re attacking a view that doesn’t even exist here.
Anyway, since the rest of your replies here, including this one, are riddled with anecdotal bias, false equivalences and arguments from personal belief, I doubt I’ll be able to have anything comparable to a productive conversation with you, at least when it comes to this topic. Hopefully you’ll be able to get to the top of the hill with your boulder eventually and somehow manage to have a good interaction solely through the use of fallacious if not outright irrational reasoning.
And no, not even close. My comment is because everything in this entire chain has been pointing out how western powers caused this. So please stop copping out and trying to suggest it's not.
Which comes from the OP posting this:
Aka, they don't have the proper resources to build proper lives and need to fight to get that. So yes my reply of fighting the good fight fits here.
Right, I'm the one suggesting that the west is to blame for a islamists ramming a van into a pride parade.
Do you people even hear the shit you say anymore?
More tolerating the intolerant...
I wouldn't say it is western powers per se. But it is the oligarchy. Be they western or not. They cause the wars, often using religion as an excuse. But first they deprived the people of the resources and opportunities which drove people to religion. That made it easier for the oligarchy to control them by giving them an organized set of things to be upset about. So religion is really just a tool.
Sure, but you're not seeing other poor stripped nations having their citizens kill LGBTQ+ persons and blame it on western powers. It's such a cop out to use this excuse.
How you figure. Being LGBTQ+ is a death sentence in many many poor stripped nations. And it is "just" illegal in soooo many more. https://www.fairplanet.org/story/death-penalty-homosexualty-illegal/ I'm no fan of organized religion in general. And Islam can be used to justify a lot of horrendous things. But, the religion alone is not to blame here. And I didn't blame it on western powers. I blamed it on oligarchs. Those exist in nearly every country on the planet.
You may not be, but the other posters are, and I keep circling around on this one but India is a great example of western powers literally owning them, and they just got their freedom less than 100 years ago and they're not exporting religious nutjobs. And they're poor as fuck, and have way more people than the middle east does.
India the country is not poor as fuck. It's a nuclear power. Even after the west stripped it for profit, it still has absurds amount of wealth and resources. The other big difference is that while the power and money is consolidated to a segment of the population, that segment is very large compared to most countries.
And overall, you have the direction wrong. The middle east doesn't export these people. The west accepts them as refugees. But because of the wealth of india, their refugees rarely get accepted. So the religous nutjobs still exist (I've worked with some), they just stay in country. They stone their own people for being gay, or refusing to marry their rapist and all that.
So does pretty much every middle east country...and it's consolidated at the top.
Ratio wise, it's probably less than you think. Remember India has 1.4 billion people.
There are a good number of people from India all over the west though. I do agree that a lot of the EU takes in refugees at the expense of their own people though.