I can't really speak to what is happening in Canada. My experience with the trades takes place in NY. After the 2008 crash and no luck finding jobs, I took the test to become a unionized carpenter's apprentice. Part of the program was attending classes and being TAUGHT. The other part involved getting thrown jobs and those work hours got logged towards attaining your credentials and continued participation in the program. I attended classes, and the teaching involved, "build this thing," with no instruction or guidance on how to properly build it. The few jobs I did get involved dry walling, and scaffold building. I wasn't being given enough work to sustain myself outside of the apprentice program, but I had to be available at a moment's notice to accept jobs to stay in the program. Then there was the sexism. After about 6 months, I said, "fuck it," and started spending my energy finding other work.

[–] nyan@lemmy.cafe 20 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Short version: no one in Ontario wants to hire trade apprentices, and there are multiple problems with the certification process (many of which may be traceable to the fact that the testing is run by a third party, which has no incentive to do more than they were contracted to do, rather than by the body that's technically issuing the certifications). Plus the usual issues of discrimination that have been there forever seem to be causing women, in particular, to leave the trades before getting fully certified. And misallocation of provincial government funds that were supposed to be put toward fixing some of this, because Doug Ford.

[–] GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 11 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Often a barrier to a lot of skilled work. Lots of old timers want to play gatekeeper rather than teach new labour because it raises their personal market value. Absolutely destroys the industry, but it raises their personal market value. Unions used to help with this, because more workers meant more dues, so it flipped the incentive structure. It's a shame we don't do that anymore.

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That may exist, but I also see the opposite too. Old guys willing to help pass on knowledge or training, but the new guys think they are all going to retire young by being a YouTube star, when they aren't texting all day instead of listening to the trainer/or expert.

[–] GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

Old guys willing to help pass on knowledge or training

There's a lot less of those than I had wanted to believe. We've had generations now of old salts who wouldn't or couldn't teach, and find every reason under the sun to tell anyone who wants to learn to go pound sand. They'll use you as a first year apprentice as glorified labour, and refuse to take you on once you're worth more. There's a million suckers behind you desperate for a job, so you have hundreds of first year apprentices who will never finish training because they can't get someone to take them on once their work is worth real wages.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

College courses should be elevated to alleviate this or the government should have crown trade corporations to enable the current system.

[–] GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Unfortunately college classes don't give the degree of field work necessary to really develop trade skills. That's why most apprenticeships include both class work and field work. Crown corps might help, but you're going to have existing trades screaming bloody murder and Doug Ford will try to start Ontario separation because that's his funding base.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Expanding them to a multi-year programme would assume to give enough tactile work.

If Ford opposes it then it must be a good idea.

[–] GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

It's already a multi-year program. The problem is, it's too "clean." Efficiently repeatable practical tests don't teach you how to adapt to real world conditions. Like testing in a lab environment, only for the results to fail in the field. The point of apprenticeship is it allows you to have active exposure to live environments while being supervised by competent mentors. The only way to get that kind of experience is if you're getting real world service contracts. Like I said, if there were a publicly owned crown corp, that might work, but the powers that be will push back hard on it because the one thing they don't want is competition that's going to undercut their profit margins and turn off the kickbacks to their pet politicians.

[–] CapuccinoCoretto@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Wait! I know the answer to this one: the free market makes no mistakes. Everyone gets exactly what they asked for. Low taxes, privatized everything, low to no regulation. Welcome to paradise. /s

Is the S really necessary? Feels gratuitous.