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A 10-month Commerce Department probe concluded Meta could view all WhatsApp messages in unencrypted form

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[–] thatradomguy@lemmy.world 29 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

The fact that Trump's own goon uses Signal and not WhatsApp should probably tell you all you need to know about using WhatsApp.

[–] QuandaleDingle@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago

Yes, not to mention that their security breach on Signal was of their own making. Some moron invited a member of the press to their chat. XD

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 69 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Here's the original reporting, instead of another website's summary of Bloomberg's actual report:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-04-28/us-ends-investigation-into-claims-whatsapp-chats-aren-t-private

https://archive.is/sGE3e

So it sounds like the agent was investigating allegations, from content moderation contractors, that Meta could access the contents of WhatsApp messages, and came to the conclusion that yes, Meta could.

There are a few possibilities here.

  1. Meta does have full plain text access to all Whatsapp messages, but guards that access very closely. Although the clients seem to generate E2EE keys for each session, somehow they're leaking those keys to Meta's servers somewhere, and the closed source code sufficiently hides that so that there's no whistleblower or security researcher able to detect this definitively.
  2. Meta has a secret wiretap functionality where they can compromise the E2EE keys somehow, but uses it only for narrow cases. This helps keep the functionality secret, because security researchers and other reviewers may never see the functionality in action.
  3. Meta allows users to report objectionable content in the threads they're already part of. The reporting function either forwards the E2EE key itself, or all the plaintext data, that gives content moderators access to the underlying message contents. The contractor whistleblowers and the federal agent investigating these allegations simply got it wrong, and misunderstood the technical process of how the plaintext messages end up in the content moderator's possession.

Meta claims that it's #3. They acknowledge they have plaintext access to messages when a party to the thread presses the report button.

This unnamed federal agent believes it's #1, after 10 months of investigation, and sent out an email to other investigators that they should look into that possibility.

I'm skeptical of #1, simply because I don't believe that conspiracies to keep that kind of stuff secret can be maintained. It's not just that there would be technically skilled whistleblowers who have actual access to the code (not the non-technical content moderator contractors who review the content), but a weakness in such an important and widely used protocol would attract all sorts of hackers, state sponsored or otherwise.

But option #2 might explain everything we've seen so far. Full wiretap capability that is rarely used and very tightly controlled.

[–] flambonkscious@sh.itjust.works 3 points 10 hours ago

Thanks for the sane interpretation of the situation!

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 24 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

Just assume anything you're writing online, on any app, any website, any social media platform... ANYTHING is being tracked now.

We learned from the FBI's disclosure of the Guthrie kidnapping video that every camera and microphone are surveilling you and feeding that data into a government database without a warrant, so why would you think your apps are doing anything different?

[–] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 1 day ago (2 children)

No. Shit.

People who say Facebook (now Meta) paid $21 billion (with a B) for WhatsApp to be charitable. Even though the original creators have distanced themselves from it after the acquisition.

Fun fact: every forum running phpBB, Invision, or vBulletin (as in, traditional Internet forums) can read your DMs in plaintext. They're unencrypted in the SQL database. However, the forum's Admin Control Panel (ACP) does not provide this functionality. All three have mods that add it in. So imagine you run a forum. You have a hidden forum where only your mods and admins can interact. No one else can even see it. You could have a whole other one that is just all the DMs. I'm not sure about social networks. But I know if you have command-line access to the SQL database, you can query a user and see everything that user has put in the database. Public messages... and private ones. So a lot of the forums started saying "Personal messages" or "Direct messages" instead of "Private messages" because they were never private.

Disbelieve anyone who says they can't see your private or personal messages.

[–] TootSweet@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

I can't see your private or personal messages.

[–] FaygoBoozer@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I can confirm this, I used to run several phpbb and (pirated) vbulletin juggalo forums and when I found out this was possible I read everyone's DMs for funzies.

Lotttts of requests for noodz.

Since you are a self proclaimed professional, what percentage of nude requests were answered positively, and is it as close to zero as I expect?

[–] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 15 hours ago

Pirated vBulletin. I sure didn't have the sack for that. I figure, pirated software running on a server, especially if it's not your hardware (and self hosting wasn't an option for me back then) is kind of dangerous.

When I found out I could get at the DMs in an Invision board I was running for a minute, I made a post letting everyone know, and worked it into the thing you agree to when you sign up. I made it clear that I wasn't good with SQL and it wasn't easy to read them, but that I did have that access and to not use our DMs for anything you wouldn't want someone to be able to see.

I assume most of the noods requests were from the juggaloes to the juggalettes exclusively? Or did it go both ways? Never cared much for ICP, though "The Amazing Jekyll Brothers" had some cool songs on it ("Everybody Rize," "I Stab People," "Mad Professor," and maybe a couple others)... but the fandom? Absolutely wild. Even if I thought ICP straight up sucked, I'd have to admit the fandom is awesome.

I sorta recently (couple years ago) learned that some US states actually brand juggaloes a gang. Like it's illegal to be one. That's wild to me. I don't think Deadheads ever got the same treatment, and, same thing, different genre.

[–] CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca 23 points 23 hours ago

It's decided. No more arms deals on Whatsapp for this guy.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 186 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (13 children)

"The claim that WhatsApp can access people's encrypted communications is patently false," Meta spokesperson Andy Stone said. He added that the bureau had already "disavowed this purported investigation, calling its own employee's allegations unsubstantiated."

I can't help but notice that in response to people's concern that Meta may be able to read people's messages, the Meta spokesperson responds that WhatsApp can't read them. A little bit of administrative juggling on Meta's end so that the team with access to the messages doesn't fall within the WhatsApp department, and both claims could be true.

[–] socsa@piefed.social 2 points 16 hours ago

It's likely the cloud backups they can read. Encrypted archives are hard to sync across devices while still keeping the same level of security. I always advise against it if you don't have a good reason to do it.

It's also all but confirmed that they use on-device keyword recognition for targeted advertising. So if the app can phone home for some keywords, then it can phone home for anything.

[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 60 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Yeah, there are lots of ways for this to be true but misleading:

The communications are not encrypted if they have the keys.

The encrypted communications are not the people's. By the TOS everything is the property of WhatsApp and they can access their own 'Business Records' perfectly legally.

A third party, like a federal agency, isn't WhatsApp. (WhatsApp can also voluntarily give their 'Business Records' to said agencies without warrant or subpoena.)

Meta isn't WhatsApp.

An internal project with an undisclosed codename isn't WhatsApp.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Nitpicking; even if they have the keys, the messages can be encrypted. It's just worthless as they can now decrypt them.

[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

Sure, when they say WhatsApp can't access the encrypted messages they could mean that Meta/another internal group has access to the encrypted messages and they decrypt them in order to provide them to WhatsApp/whoever.

(Obviously, as someone pointed out, this is all assuming that he's telling the truth in some legalistic way and not just flat out lying.)

[–] trailee@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

My favorite option is that they don’t access the encrypted communications, they access messages before encryption takes place and send copies home for safe keeping. With a closed source client they can do anything they want to the plaintext even if they handle the ciphertext appropriately.

[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago

Yeah, that or either of the ends is compromised by one of the various commercial spyware which offers zero-click installation of their software or the person you're talking to is intentionally recording the messages.

End-to-End encryption only protects you from someone eavesdropping on the communication on the line. It doesn't secure the endpoints or make the participants trustworthy.

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[–] IratePirate@feddit.org 32 points 1 day ago (1 children)

But Facebook/"Meta" would never lie.

Oopsie! Hang on, they even lie to lawmakers in case buying them off fails? Bummer!

Seriously: this company needs to be scoured from the face of the earth.

[–] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Mergers: Commission fines Facebook €110 million for providing misleading information about WhatsApp takeover - Brussels, 18 May 2017

Classic

[–] IratePirate@feddit.org 3 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Profit made from yet more abuse of user data: 500m EUR
Cost of ~~misleading~~ lying to lawmakers: 110m EUR
Net profit: 390m EUR
"We got 'em good, boys! I'm sure they're never going to try that again!"

[–] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 1 points 13 hours ago

:’( poor general public

[–] Whostosay@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Are you telling me that the company that hosts "free" not propaganda services and has been caught repeatedly stealing all possible data including data about women and presumably girls' periods and has been caught in one of the largest data manipulation scandals this century could be betraying my trust with their "vawwy vawwy pwivate and vawwy vawwy encwypted" closed source and again operated by the most sinister motherfuckers of all time messaging app????

I. Am. Shocked.

I'm also looking for a bridge on the cheap if you guys have any leads.

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[–] codenamekino@lemmy.world 77 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'm just here to satisfy my confirmation bias, but my question all along has been this: how does Meta simultaneously satisfy their claims of both E2EE and content moderation on WhatsApp? I can't say that I've done anything even close to a deep dive on the topic, but those two things seem mutually exclusive.

[–] baatliwala@lemmy.world 25 points 1 day ago (13 children)

You can actually report a message to WhatsApp within the app. If you report the message it then the full text gets sent to WhatsApp.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

That's a little disingenuous...

  1. You receive an encrypted message.
  2. You decrypt the message.
  3. You report the message.
  4. You forward the decrypted message.

When you send a message, no E2EE scheme can prevent your recipient from forwarding the decrypted message to a third party.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 13 points 21 hours ago

It's really important for people to understand that E2EE cannot protect the message portions that aren't between the ends themselves. The best encryption in the world can't help you if the person you're talking to is an undercover cop, because that "end" can do with the plaintext whatever they want, including record/store/forward the plaintext of any messages they then encrypt and send, or any messages they receive and then decrypt.

That's not a flaw of the E2EE protocol itself, but is a limit to the scope of protection that E2EE provides.

[–] Prathas@lemmy.zip 3 points 21 hours ago

Well, yeah, you can't control other people. Even if you use a walkie-talkie, they can still record your voice with a device. Ideally you should only be talking about safely publishable content, or with mature-enough individuals. We ultimately must settle for good-enough...

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[–] HereIAm@lemmy.world 26 points 1 day ago

I don't particularly know much about this specific topic but, it would be trivial for them to read what's seen in the app. The encrypted part is only during transfer of a message, your app is still decrypting it to plain texts, and meta can just read the message at that point.

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago (12 children)

I never assumed that this presumed "end to end encryption" was secure in any way. The key exchange either runs over Meta servers, and they just log them, or the client software simply surrenders the key (maybe always, maybe on demand) together with the data stream that still runs over Meta servers.

[–] HeyJoe@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago

I also never assumed it was fully secure either. Like sure it could be secure to hackers since they would still need the keys, but if anyone ever thought Meta was somehow not going to allow themselves access is just crazy and I am shocked anyone thought differently. On top of this they absolutely share all data with the government, im just not sure if it's by request or full access anytime.

Sadly, everyone i know still uses it so im kind of forced to but at the same time the chats are all dumb anyway so whatever and enjoy reading them Meta employees.

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[–] theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world 58 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

The most important question to ask when evaluating end-to-end encryption: who manages the keys?

If Facebook manages all of the keys and is responsible for telling which public key belongs to who, then of course Facebook can read every message.

[–] lemonhead2@lemmy.world 37 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

oh lol. the trust chain is harder and harder to verify these days. i miss the good old days where I would write emails in vi and encrypt with gpg.

I still write emails with vi. but I lost touch with the one other friend I had who knew how to use gpg 😂😂😂

[–] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 21 points 1 day ago (2 children)

There are dozens of us! Dozens!

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[–] cyberduck@aussie.zone 28 points 1 day ago

If you can't see the code (closed source) then treat it as they're lying and it isn't end to end encrypted

[–] osanna@lemmy.vg 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

If you still use faecesbook products, you're an idiot.

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