Overview:
Electric Vehicles are a key part of our tomorrow and how we get there. If we can get all the fossil fuel vehicles off our roads, out of our seas and out of our skies, we'll have a much better environment. This community is where we discuss the various different vehicles and news stories regarding electric transportation.
Related communities:
I get that the author is being snarky, but on the whole I don’t necessarily disagree with the author of the piece he’s critical of, that much of the design of all new cars– not just EVs– can be user hostile. There’s a lot of design choices present that seem to be different for different sake. “Fixing” problems that didn’t need fixing.
The complaint about changing being locked behind apps is also extremely valid.
We’re all EV fans here, but let’s not waive away valid criticism.
I agree with you about not necessarily disagreeing. He's right, we're "not there yet". As in, it's not equally easy to road trip.
But he also completely missed the trade-off, which is that I don't have to go to gas stations either. And when I do 1 or maybe 2 road trips a year, as opposed to stopping at gas stations >25x/year, that's a very welcome trade-off. There's an argument to be made that you might even save some money by not being tempted to buy shit at the gas station, which a lot of people do.
There's an argument to be made that you might even save some money by not being tempted to buy shit at the gas station, which a lot of people do.
Not sure that argument holds water because we always hear about the shopping and/or dining that can be done while charging.
Yes but that is again only on long trips. Every other day of the year you're driving straight home.
I just recently went on a road trip with an EV, and i have some thoughts.
It was a BYD atto 3, not mine. I drove from melbourne victoria to adeliade SA over 2 days.
Fast chargers in rural vic suck. They really need more, especially in the smaller towns. I arrived at a few places that had all the chargers taken (except for the pointless ChADmo plug, never saw one used).
The rural SA network is far better setup. Fast chargers in nearly every town. Good work RAA.
More shopping centers in SA need chargers, being able to plug in, buy groceries and come back to near full is great. Need more of it.
Kangaroo Island has one fast charger, for a hilly island 100km across. ABRP was suggesting that i could drive from 100% to the other end, and back ans arrive at 9%. Not a lot of leeway, and pretty concerning for a newbie. (I managed to get back at 20%, but i was way under the speed limit most of the trip). One more central fast charger would be great. Slow chargers are basically worthless, too slow to appreciably move the needle.
I observed a few EVs arriving at the chargers at empty or near empty (first time hyundai ev driver hit 0% and entered limp mode). The drivers were often completely unprepared to charge, and waste time setting up the app. The dealerships need to get people setup and prepared before they drive off the block.
There should be a better way to queue for the chargers. Once you are charged, you can run off to the servo or go for a walk, but will queuing, you have to sit in your car and watch and wait like a hawk. The networks have apps, why not build a queue system into them. Some kind of: reserve next charger -> get two minutes to move in -> if you dont move in, next person gets in. That plus an estimate of when your due in could make the queueing process a bit more pleasant.
chargers are actually very cheap as far as infrastructure goes: https://a.aliexpress.com/_mL4C3OD . Aliexpress caveats of course, but a 160kW fast charger for $3k is a steal, they should be peppered everywhere.
The dealerships need to get people setup and prepared before they drive off the block.
Sure, for now maybe. A real and more permanent solution, is to make them accept simple credit card taps for payment. That way people don't need to be setup on anything.
160kW fast charger for $3k is a steal, they should be peppered everywhere.
The units themselves are only part of the cost. The actual install can be 1-4x that much. Doing it properly (trenching cables underground) can be very expensive.
Credit card would be nice, but id still use the app. Being able to monitor the charge remotely is very useful. One of the chargers i used gave a QR code to remotely monitor it, so fhat was cool.
Even at 4x the cost installed its super cheap. They are charging about 70-80c per kwh, and the wholesale electricity price is ~30-50. So roughly 50% profit. My average charge cost around $30, so $15 profit per charge. That brings the payback period to around 1200 charges, which is great. To contrast it with a fuel station, you have to excavate a pit and install a giant tank. Thats going to cost significantly more.
And still cheap compared to an underground tank and bowser.
Edit: sorry, I didnt read the rest of your comment.
Do what Portugal does and have there be a single nationwide network (that doesn't require a national address to register, so tourists can do it too) so then you only need one app. While sometimes you can get a discount using other apps, you've always got the one that let's you charge anywhere.
I mean, ideally you shouldn't need an app at all.
Like I don't need an app to pay at a grocery store or gas station or restaurant now. Why should I for charging a car?
Ideally yes, but there are very good reasons for the app. Mostly because charging can be a relatively long excercise, apps let you monitor the process while you go eat or walk or whatever. The apps also let you check in advance if the chargers are working or occupied, avoiding the need to stop if you know its not available (or stop earlier if there is another option).
Getting charging down to a 5min process would solve both of those usecases somewhat, but there is still the broken charger issue.
You can setup an rfid card to do the paynent, but thats just linking a card to your app account. One card can support multiple networks though.
Is there any kind of pricing regulation? One network sounds like it would mean no pricing competition.
We have 4 charging networks that im aware of, but only 2 are needed to get 99% of places. But especially for small towns, there is only one charger, so no real choice (or competition).
There are lots of different operators who charge their own rates, they just all have to use the same network for payment. And the (only?) good part about it being via app or keyfob or autocharge is that it doesn't have to use Visa/MasterCard. But it would also be fine by me if they accepted MBWay/SIBS (which is our local payment network) right at the charger.
And then you have to worry about crackheads stealing the copper.
I have a vehicle that uses Chademo, and at bigger rural charging stations, there are usually 3+ ccs chargers for the 1 Chademo. I expect most build out from here to focus on ccs, and there is the tech to convert ccs to Chademo so I'll not be left with an un road-trip-able vehicle, so appreciate while you think they are useless, the majority of investment now is increasing ccs.
Good to hear SA is doing good work here, and disappointed VIC sucks on that stretch. There are charging deserts even closer to Melbourne over East too and that sucks.
agree about most the other points especially queuing for chargers. hope that comes!
You would have had a great run, only once saw the chademo spot taken, which was by an ice car :D It was by a woman who was part of a convoy with another EV, she didnt go far, and no chademo cars turned up anyway. But i did find that funny.
I do occasionally see other Chademo cars, and there are definitely a few that check in on Plugshare, I think we tend to be more regular about checking in as it's really helpful to know if the Chademo port works for others.
Media on EVs sucks shit. Either they cheerlead or they whine about everything.
Yes, the infrastructure is not there and governments don't care. When we decided to help the handicapped, laws came out and within weeks every parking lot had special spaces. We could do the same thing with chargers, and fine businesses for not maintaining them.
If people see chargers everywhere, they will consider EVs.
What the journalist meant to say, I’m sure, is that the installed based of petrol pumps, having had a century’s head start, is more extensive than the new and emerging network of fast chargers being built out by governments and private industry, mostly over the last four years following the defeat of the Morrison government, and its implacable hostility to any form of renewable infrastructure.
The prospective EV driver doesn't care why the infrastructure is poor; they care that it is poor. It might be good to know about potential future growth, and as the article is based on Om's experience in Sydney, he explicitly notes that NSW plans to roll out chargers and how many.
There are things like charging to 100% when Om had no logistical reason to as an experiment – when this kind of data exists – is rude and obviously unnecessary, but then Birmingham makes these other ridiculous points, acting mad the article isn't just running defense for EV infrastructure.
He doesn’t straight up say this is the fault of watever EV he is driving, but you can rest assured that it was totally the fault of whatever EV he was driving.
Uh, no, Om wants to check a parking lot he knows of as a sample someone living in that area might use in their day-to-day, finds that there are two of two chargers occupied, and one of them is by an ICE car. Where does Birmingham get: "but… Oh noes!… There’s only two charging spots in ~~the whole fucking city~~ ‘in a parking lot near work.’' from? Om found an actual problem with the infrastructure, and out of every option, Birmingham reaches for a strawman acting like Om got bent out of shape over it.
This article is so needlessly whiny about normal things in Om's article, making it a chore to get to actual, substantive critiques. Basically all of Birmingham's actual critiques, meanwhile, are what you'd trivially glean from just read the original article – just layered under a cloying level of smarm. I've never seen this person's blog until now, and I'm glad I haven't; he's insufferable, and I hope this isn't nearly his "finest".