Fediverse

This comment section is a shit show. Be respectful of each other next time please. Locked.

This will probably be unpopular but the leftist - liberal infighting is my least favorite part of the fediverse and why I usually end up having to give people a warning before telling them to get on the fediverse.

This drama is kind of the epitome of that

Its such an empty criticism when they federate with the ml instances.

about the later's Zionist Bar Problem

I'd prefer to have a less biased title for this thread because this is a very one-sided point of view and just parrots what the db0 admin claims without questioning them.

Edit: Thanks for putting it in quotation marks, OP.

This all stems from a fundamental misunderstanding that no one seems to be interested in clearing up.

The original post that brought the allegations of feddit being zionist to more people is this one, and the one that originated the allegations is this one.

The feddit.org admin inside explicitly states that the removal of the comment being talked about by the original thread is not about pro-zionism or anti-semitism.

Now what does the person claim it is about? That seems to be majorly ignored. Let me rephrase it in my own words.

In Germany, after national socialism, we have very strict rules on how you are allowed to talk about it, because there were unfortunately a lot of people still denying it or not believing it. One of those rules is that no statement may be made that makes national socialism seem better than it was. So something you can't say for example is "Trump's ICE is national socialism!". This seems extremely weird from an outside (the person saying it's) perspective, because obviously, yes, the tactics Trump uses are directly borrowed from national socialism.

However, if you look at national socialism as a whole, it was much worse than just ICE. Millions were killed etc.

Now, the person who makes the statement "Trump's ICE is national socialism!" is obviously using it to express that ICE is terrible. But if you want to look at it from a certain way (which German law likes to do) it's also saying that they're roughly equal, which, since Trump and ICE is currently not quite at the level of full national socialism, would minimize the severity of national socialism by bringing it "down" to the same level as the Trump regime and ICE.

Obviously, from a perspective of a person today, this seems ridiculous, because the current threat is ICE and not national socialism, so who cares about "how national socialism is talked about exactly"?! Isn't it much more important to make sure that ICE is taken appropriately seriously? And you would of course be right. But the stance is that the ends do not justify the means, and it is very much possible to fight against ICE without comparing it to the whole of national socialism.

This is what is being talked about by the mods/admins. It has nothing to do with either anti-semitism or anti-zionism.

Now, if you say something like "Trump's ICE resembles early national socialism!", that is a completely fine statement to make in the eyes of the law. You are actually comparing ICE to what it actually is, "early [stages of] national socialism", and not "national socialism [in general]".

Feelings are running high, even as I type these words, I can imagine it. But please try to think about this stance for a moment and try to see that it is not Trump ICE apologist, or trying to minimize what ICE is doing. It is simply trying to pay heed to two important issues at the same time, of which one has much more immediacy and current real impact on people's lives than the other.

I used this ICE example on purpose because it is even nearer than the genocide in Gaza. And because it is farther away from "full national socialism style genocide". I hope I could make the thinking in this example clear, and I hope at least a modicum of rationality can be attributed to this.

And now let's go back to the original zionist accusations. The original comment was removed because of the last part of it, which said "Providing material support to Israel is no different from providing material support to Nazi Germany". As much as people don't want to see it, the situation in Gaza is actually different than the situation in Nazi Germany. The Jewish population in Nazi Germany never launched rockets at Germans, in fact, jewish people in Nazi Germany were exceptionally peaceful. In Gaza, there is genocide happening, there is a power differential, and Palestinians need to fight back, but there is simply no rational denying that it's not the same as the genocide in Nazi Germany.

Obviously what is happening in Gaza is terrible and Israel needs to be condemned, but what they're doing is still not on the same level of evil as Nazi Germany. And thus you could argue that comparing the situation in Gaza to national socialism is minimizing the severity of national socialism. And thus the same kind of argument applies as in the previous example with ICE, it just is even less understandable for a person who didn't know/understand/agree with this argument.

I'm basically sure I'll be condemned as a zionist now, or whatever, go ahead.

ok.

This thread even 18 hrs later:

I didn’t notice c/europe was zionists. I just typed israel, I see highly (legitimately) upvoted posts against it.

I’m sure you can find some unsavory stuff, but I haven’t stumbled upon it once.

On the other hand I’ve been confronted to authoritarian bootlickers too many times from ml. If you don’t defederate from them too then you’re not being consistent.

Interesting that finally there starts to be some reprecusions for the Germans being so pro genocide. I know it's a very small gesture in a very nish social media but I'm happy about it neverthe less.

I've noticed this too and have been following the conversation. However, I think self-isolation isn't the answer. Allowing r/The_Donald to go private didn't stop the far right.

What works is challenging these people, constantly. Mockery, abuse, whatever it takes. But building up echo-chambers, or allowing echo-chambers isn't the solution.

This solidifies my decision for migrating my account from there to piefed.social. Not because I support those views but because this means that many of the communities I’m subscribed to won’t be visible anymore from there. Personally I’ve not seen the problem in the mentioned communities but I also don’t actively participate in deep political discussions especially regarding Israel/Palestine since I don’t have the energy for that.

Such a stupid move....

Oh, yeah, "They removed my comment where I'm just an asshole and telling people to kill themselves, they are such zionists 😭"

The fuck is wrong with you guys?

Dang and I just made this account too. Time to find a new instance... Any recommendations? How is lemmy.today?

This whole process has looked sus to me. And on top of that, I don't think voting by up/downvoting the post itself is a good way to call votes

it means a minority can pass a rule without it being even seen by the majority (not sure that matters in this case). Voting should be done in a top-level comment.

Such an excellent thread for filling out my block list

Nice. Props to db0

Its funny… regardless if its the Web of old, IRC channels, a real life small gardening commune (Kleingartenverein) or now here on the Fediverse - there will always be petty wars to be fought. Perhaps its part of the “human experience”, who knows…

Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there).

Thank you for recognizing statesia my ego gets a little wonky if it goes unnoticed

1. Thank you for the shout out Salamence.
2. You have made it easier to find Fascists to block🤝