this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2026
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This will probably be unpopular but the leftist - liberal infighting is my least favorite part of the fediverse and why I usually end up having to give people a warning before telling them to get on the fediverse.
This drama is kind of the epitome of that
I joined to talk about math and programming. It's a letdown that this Podunk platform seems to consist mostly of the weirdest, loudest people who saw the political compass meme and took it way too seriously.
Leftist vs liberal infighting has been going on since the late 1700s.
Of course what you really have to ask yourself is, if they've been infighting since basically the beginning and if their ideals are diametrically opposed then is it even in fighting?
When the liberals were the leftists?
Nope.
Yes: crack open a history book.
Maybe you should actually read some of it next time. Read about Gracchus Babeuf and learn a bit.
Maybe read about the French revolutionary National Assembly & where political left came from?
Agreed. A bunch of general purpose instances with slight variations on ideology that are pretty much identical.
I can't think of any "leftist organisations" that support Zionism ? Maybe you're confusing fascist with leftist ?
I mean "leftist organization" is a weird term and I would more speak of currents. And there is definitely the Antideutsche or Anti-Germans.
The German left, at least the loud one, is publically dividing between this topic. On demonstration you see a lot of people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism. That makes you a "Zionist" on Lemmy, as there is often only "anti genocide and pro genocide" in online discussions. But the world is very complex and there is a large continuum between Islamic and Jewish ethno state philosophy.
Saying Hamas is antisemitic is sure fire sign of being a Zionist.
Palestinians are a semitic people.
If you want to saw that Hamas hates Jews, well, when your entire life has been being bombed by planes with stars of David on them, while jackbooted thugs with stars of David on their shoulder kick in your door to kidnap your family members in the night, and settlers with star of David necklaces show up and claim your home and land by divine right, I can start to see where you develop feelings toward the people who carry the same sign.
Maybe, just maybe, if Israel wanted the world to be a safer place for Jews they would stop associating a genocide with Judaisim as they are so fucking desperate to do.
You probably already know this, but Israel wants the world to be a more dangerous place for Jews to justify Israel's illegitimate existence and aggression. That's why they conducted terrorist attacks against Ethiopian Jews, to convince them that they needed to move to Israel as it's the only safe place for them... where they're then met by deep-rooted racism.
100%
Israel wants to be a Jewish ethnostate, but only the Jews they deem to be the "Good" ones
Antisemitic clearly means anti-Jewish. Sure it technically means all Semitic people, and as such a better word could have been used so long ago, but it's intended and in use meaning today is very clearly defined. Jewish people have been some of the biggest victims of Middle Eastern and European hate for thousands of years.
You're doing the #AllLivesMatter of religious hate.
Hemming and hawing over genocide is disgusting.
It does not make you a Zionist on Lemmy. You are a Zionist in real life.
"Opposing Hamas makes you a Zionist", can you confirm that statement?
You said supporting Hamas is antisemitic. Why are you crawling back to the word Zionism now?
Me
You
Again you
Me
???
This is a Zionist defense of Israel by conflating antisemitism with anti-Zionism.
I see where you are going. Well, how anti Zionism and antisemitism are interconnected is subject to the current scientific debate and I won't start a fundamental discussion on this topic with you. What is important for me in the end is, that I am standing against the left that is openly sympathizing with the Hamas.
If you don't want to engage in a civil discussion, that's alright with me. But if you run out of arguments, just stop commenting?
Hamas is based and defending Palestine against genocidal Nazis.
The modern left-right discourse is just so confusing to me.
I've seen authoritarians, supporters of war crimes, and support for terrorism and cruelty, all claimed as leftist positions. I can't reconcile them with what I thought left-wing values were about.
I really think we need something with more dimensions to be popularized. The left-right system is just so loaded at this point. I personally can't identify with either side at all.
as you recognized, this is a 2 coordinate system, and the split is between left-libertarian and left-authoritarian. your confusion lets me take a guess and say you sit in the US, where the libertarian/authoritaran axis has been compressed by the 2-party system, which is like putting too many cats at once in a small box - you get infighting, at least on the left; the right has the same, but the infighting between right-authoritarians(fascists) and left-auths(tankies) takes backseat. while the libertarian part is discussing in what type of society they want to live, the authoritarian part is primarily occupied with securing power, mostly followed by internal purges.
Your problem is that you're an idealist and you think ideas can be translated into practice just by having the correct ideas. Reality is not like that, fascists will play dirty and capitalists will play dirty and you can't win at their own game.
(Alt-)"Left" != Left, and in fact shares far more in common with Right (aka: fascism).
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I guess this is one of the reasons these "inter left" discussions are so exhausting.
Don't be discouraged. Personally I don't have the energy any more to endure the abuse of the mob (these "leftist" ignoramuses whose obsession with "Zionism" leads them to support literal fascism) but it's important that somebody makes the points you're making.
My favorite part is pointing out that most israelis are not white westerners, but from other middle eastern countries who were fleeing persecution in those countries and are more arab than western in terms of ethnicity and history.
But that doesn't fit the nice narrative that all Israelis are white colonlizer/invaders from europe or something. Literally never had it acknowledged once, just denied and told that it is zionist propaganda.
You should have been bullied more in school.
Before Lemmy, I didn't know it was possible to go so left that you hated liberals.
yeah it sucks. it sucks balls.
i have to deal with it IRL. It lead to me quitting some things I used to love doing because I was so sick of psychos telling me if I am not a extremist leftist who is angry and outraged 24/7 I must be a fascist/zionist/pro-genocide/anti trans/bigot/blah blah blah.