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Marine colonel quits after 24 years citing concern for future of US under Trump (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by throws_lemy@lemmy.nz to c/news@lemmy.world

65 comments fedilink hide all child comments

He quietly urged other military personnel to reflect on their own positions. “They should be confident in questioning possibly immoral or illegal orders,” he said, “remembering they are responsible for their own actions, and knowing others are asking the same questions.”

“If they have doubts about their orders, they are not alone,”

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[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 91 points 2 months ago (5 children)

All these comments are telling him to stay and fight, but they’re ignoring that could be devastating to his family.

He’s over the 20 year mark and can retire. If he stays and gets a dishonorable discharge, his family gets none of his retirement, no medical, and a family member with financial mobility akin to a felon.

What would you do in that situation?

I don’t think I’d be willing to put my family through that. We don’t have enough in the bank to take a blow like that. I’d probably do what he did. Try to fight another way.

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 23 points 2 months ago

He's read SunTzu. He knows a good strategy sometimes is to be safe.

I hope he can move with his family out of range of the re-activation order.

[–] bagsy@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Bullies and fascists do not stop unless they are forced to stop. If every american capitulates like this, then we are lost.

This is what it means to fight for country and freedom. It's not just words in a country music song. Standing up for your beliefs sometimes means real risk and sacrifice.

If the armed forces want to be recognized for their service and sacrifice, this is how its done.

[–] ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It's not that Americans can't and will not fight, it's that half the population is illiterate. How do you fight 175 million neighbors?

[–] bagsy@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Something like 50% of humans are hard wired to follow their gut. They rely on fairh, authority, and feelings to guide their everyday descision making. They do not live their lives based on facts or logic. If they believe something, then, its true.

Right wing media takes full advantage of this. They spent 40 years making people "feel" a certain way.

So, to answer your question, I think we need to stop the constant flow of poison flowing into their ears. The poison needs to be replaced with a better message.

[–] MonkeMischief@lemmy.today 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I wish there was a better way to sabotage that signal. At this point, those rage-pundits thrive on embarrassing themselves and can say the most heinous and vile things without their audience turning on them. Heck, the worse it gets, the more their audience shifts into insanity!

Even the fact that they're filthy rich while screaming at and demeaning their audience with "self reliance" and "rugged individualism" messages hasn't phased them.

The fact they claim to be Christian but are the most useful tools of hell is simply shrugged off because the Bible is too "hard to comprehend" but this media is always right there, screaming at them to hate and be afraid. It's "simple."

But just hypothetically silencing them somehow will lend more credibility to the narrative that they're the ones with the truth and everybody's out to get them.

This is literal destabilization PsyOP strategy.

How do we stop a constant bombardment that wires people to indulge in the worst parts of their nature?

I'm not being a doomer here. I lost my dad to FOX's bullshit and at a point in my life it threatened to take me too. I really want to know how we can counter this at scale...

[–] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

I generally agree with you, but it flows both ways. And I know we hate this whole both sides thing, and I generally agree, but all news is propaganda these days, it feels like. The constant message I try to spread is to think micro. Stop taking on these world problems and try to solve a problem more locally, try to take an action that you can physically take with your own hands. I firmly believe that stronger communities make a stronger nation.

I live in a place where elections are upcoming, and I see signs of the opposition, but I try to think of these people first and foremost as my neighbors. I truly think that solves a lot of problems, because while the right is thinking of everyone on the left as criminals, the left is painting anyone on the right as Nazi fascists, and this in and of itself is a problem. The other side is not inherently wrong. There is no one correct way to do things. We're all fumbling through life, nobody knows what theyre doing, lets try to do it without being afraid of each other.

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[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 12 points 2 months ago

People are having their entire livelihoods destroyed for mocking ICE or not rending their shirt with sufficient passion over the death of a nazi. People are risking everything you listed every time they go to a protest and wonder if THIS will be the day that the cops swarm through.

Everyone needs to decide what risks they will and won't take. But I am not going to say "Come on now. He figured he would be fine either way and didn't want to risk any repercussions. Cut him some slack".

[–] wulrus@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

Could be even worse, look at what happened to Stauffenberg's family.

Arguable whether he signed up for that.

Fight and die in defence of a NATO ally? Yes. Same as the aggressor, if the elected government decides so, such as in Iraq? Also yes.

Risk having his wife, children, grandchildren taken away and put in Sippenhaft (collective punishment) or put in a reeducation orphanage? Not sure there is a moral obligation to that. Safety for his family was one of the things he got out of all this.

His risks for resisting beyond what he already did are higher than they would be for the average citizen. On the other hand, he also could do more than the average citizen.

A tough call, and I would not judge.

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[–] BlackVenom@lemmy.world 55 points 2 months ago (4 children)

He made the problem worse?

[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 55 points 2 months ago (3 children)

He’s been there long enough for retirement. If he fought Trump he’d be dishonorably discharged and lose all retirement pay, all medical benefits, and you’ll have a record that is equivalent to having a felony.

By quitting now he’s ensuring the welfare of his family.

[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 22 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It's not ensured. They can still take away his rank and pay in retirement.

[–] SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 2 months ago

They can, but it's far less likely than if he stayed in and was put in a position where he had to refuse orders.

[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

True. But retiring now will reduce risk.

[–] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

The statement stands because by the time the military turn on Trump properly (if they ever do) we can't just assume they'd fail.

They're one of the few groups capable of intervening.

[–] jasoman@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Like that could stop Trump at this point. He do it and DOJ would just watch.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 26 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Fascists having less competent soldiers is far from worse, hopefully more and more walk away.

Now is a great time, too, since they're not getting paid and if any of them are laid off the Trump admin has stated they won't recieve backpay, which the Trump admin has confirmed is the plan.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 12 points 2 months ago

It isn't even about competence.

It is about not having the bodies to subjugate a people. And The People choosing to not menacingly wave a gun at "protesters" because they want a paycheck.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 6 points 2 months ago

Further, if the enlistees who aren't going to comply with illegal orders are still isolated individuals, they're more likely to meet with ah... unfortunate accidents...

They are creating a culture of fear, distrust and a need to keep families fed, everything seen, everything heard.

There will be a tipping point, the direction is unseen. US citizens are still waiting for a savior, willfully blind it's us or no one.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 19 points 2 months ago

And if instead, he later said "I didn't want to do these bad things, but I had to play the part, because if I left someone worse would replace me!" then the comments would also say he's part of the problem.

His choices are lose/lose, we made sure of that.

[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (5 children)

While in service, he is bound by duty to follow orders that are legal... and the Supreme Court said anything the President does is legal. Once out of service, he can choose to follow his own conscious and fight how he sees fit.

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[–] lemmylump@lemmy.world 45 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'm praying for a military coup, and for all these Nazi Republicans to be hung Mussolini style at a Buck ees.

In the meantime I'm putting on this frog suit and dancing in the streets.

[–] arin@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

You can't when all the reasonable people quit.

[–] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I don't think you realize what kinds of people are in the US military. Be careful what you wish for.

[–] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

I don't think you realize that the US military is a pretty fair representation of the civilian populations. I served with dudes who came in all shapes, sizes, and affiliations. You're talking about 3+ million active and reserve members, and the law of averages works the same in and out.

[–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago (5 children)

We need him to stay in, and fight the good fight, not quit. WTF?

Come January 2028, we might very well need our military leaders to uphold the Constitution they took an oath to protect, and kick the bastards out of the White House.

[–] falseWhite@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

No, we need him and all the other competent officers on the side of the rebellion. Nazis will be weak without smart people leading them.

I hope all the soldiers and officers would either drop their guns or point them away from the protestors and towards the fascist government.

Btw there won't be another election the way things are going. Waiting until 2029 to do something will be waaaayyyy tooooo late.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

also it takes a while for an officer pipeline from college(rotc or OCS)-to colonel or generals, so once they lose these officers its going to be harder to replace them, its not like suddenly can promote a non-officer to an officer quickly.

it looks like its going to end up like russia's military.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

We need him to stay in, and fight the good fight, not quit. WTF?

If you're waiting for an officer's revolt, don't hold your breath.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 months ago

It won't be in the form of a revolt, it will be in the form of the military doing its duty. If the states democratically agree on new leadership, the military have a duty to the constitution to ensure a peaceful transition of power. If some portion of the military, in the face of Trump losing a democratic election, choose to align with him and maintain his power, THOSE are the ones who are revolting.

[–] StrawberryPigtails@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 2 months ago

I don't disagree that we need people like the Colonel to stay in, but the man has served faithfully for 24 years. More than long enough to reach retirement. We have to trust in the training that he has given the men and women that have served under him, and hope that it will prove to be enough.

[–] BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

2029

[–] njm1314@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

People say this a lot but the overwhelmingly more likely result of him staying is him just sitting there and watching things happen.

[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 17 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Given that this is the only way military members can legally protest I am glad to see this sort of action.

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Then why the fuck do you quit, freely giving up your important position so that gop can put a useful idiot there?

[–] MojoMcJojo@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Because they can put you in military jail for disobeying a direct order. Man probably has a family he needs to feed. Military jail is not like civilian jail. UCMJ doesn't fuck around, and UCMJ being wielded by this administration is probably going to equal a bad time.

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 months ago

I got downvoted so much for saying the same when that air force general quit.

It does no longer matter if the order is illegal, if half the nation is rotten. There can be an order to kill civilians and it has to be obeyed. You got a family to take care of and under Trump rule, said family can suddenly become terrorists if you refuse to bomb California or NYC or something. Which you won't be able to do anything about when you're in military jail.

Most people's opinion was that you should directly disobey the dictator and just let whatever happen to your family, happen.

[–] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

People in his command see this. Shit, we see this here. But his resigning has an impression on people, which may unfortunately be the only effect he can make. The whole unlawful orders thing is a sticky situation at best, and what all of us here in this tiny echo chamber believe is not what is reflected in the real world, and so some stand he may take may end up unseen and unheard while he rots away as an O-1 in Leavenworth.

Same with when Mattis was fired back in term one. Sometimes the only statement you can make is your resignation.

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[–] D_C@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Jesus fucking Christ you fuckers in here saying "what he quit for" should read the fucking article.
The guy resigned to shine a light on the current administration, but all you can do is say "why he quit tho?"

If he hadn't have quit you'd be calling him a lackey or stooge, but when he does resign AND uses it to call out tRUMP you still think he's done the wrong thing!!

For fuck sake, take the win. Point at this guy and his message and use it. Christ.

[–] Purebred0880@lemmy.wtf 2 points 2 months ago

By quitting he is potentially allowing the administration to fill the position with a trump approved "yes man". I think he could do more good by keeping his position and defy/resist orders instead. I don't blame him, though. Getting the hell out of there seems reasonable too!

[–] aceshigh@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

How is quitting the answer? Someone else will become the yes man.

[–] MojoMcJojo@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Jail time for disobeying, as per UCMJ.

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[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

Malicious compliance would be better in most cases

[–] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

A nation of quitters, capitulators, and oath breakers.

America the brave, my dick.

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