this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2025
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[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 44 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

Look at what they need to mimic a fraction inaccurately.

The fundamental mathematical nature of how binary floating point values are stored means that extremely straightforward and rational (in the mathematical sense of the term) base-10 arithmetic can surprisingly often yield results that are irrational (again, mathematically) in binary - hence why you’ll sometimes see a result of 3.000000000101325 or something like that in places where you’d expect the result to be simply 3.0

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 25 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yep. Open your browser's console and do .1 + .2 and you get 0.30000000000000004.

One of the reasons not to use floating point when working with money.

[–] bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 month ago (4 children)

What's the right way to do money math without floats?

[–] orhtej2@eviltoast.org 34 points 1 month ago (2 children)
[–] felbane@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

Also known as "if you ain't storing cents, you ain't making sense."

[–] KoalaUnknown@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

There is also Decimal floating-point arithmetic which has a larger range and better memory safety. Java, C#, Python, Ruby, etc. have built in support for it via Decimal.

[–] Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago

Banks and big companies have to worry about round-off and fractions of a penny, so Decimal is a better solution for them. But the great unwashed like you and me will never have to worry about that, so either works.

[–] SmoothLiquidation@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

As other people mentioned, things like the decimal structure works well, but you can also just use an int to store how many pennies something costs and convert it to dollars for display.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 10 points 1 month ago

Use a dedicated data type or library. Some languages also have something like python's Decimal type

>>> .1 + .2
0.30000000000000004
>>> Decimal(".1") + Decimal(".2")
Decimal('0.3')
[–] JakenVeina@midwest.social 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The same IEEE spec that introduced base-2 floating point models was updated in 2008 to include some base-10 models that eliminate these issues. Many languages already support them natively, as well as most database engines. Otherwise, you can probably find third-party-library support.

If you don't have access to an IEEE decimal implementation, or if you just wanna be a rulebreaker, the common strategy is to just store only plain integers, and the precision level you want. So, say, if you're just dealing with simple american dollars, you'd just make sure to always interpret the integer value as "cents". If you need more precision than that, you might do "millicents".

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It'd be more correct to say round or unround.

Irrational specifically means infinite non-repeating decimal values, or equivalently that a number can't be represented as any fraction. This is independent of number system.

Sometimes "more irrational" is used as a way of saying further from any small-integer fraction by some measure, but that doesn't really work here.

[–] juliebean@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 month ago

i see what you're trying to say, but that's not what rational and irrational means (mathematically).

[–] 5765313496@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Look what they need to mimic a fraction of a fraction.

[–] Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Cause fractions can be figured out in context. You can store the numerators and have the denominator as a constant in the code.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

You can also have a type which does it. Raku has a Rational type for this.

[–] dontsayaword@piefed.social 4 points 1 month ago

Part of my first programming courses in the 90s in C were creating a native fraction type.

[–] Kacarott@aussie.zone 3 points 1 month ago

Python has the Fraction type, and there are many more

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] hexagonwin@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

unrelated but the image shows so low res (86x96) that it's unreadable, is this different for everyone else?

what mine shows - https://eviltoast.org/pictrs/image/44915c44-8836-4961-bd06-a45bba04408a.jpeg

[–] orhtej2@eviltoast.org 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The link you gave shows hires for me. Can you try loading in incognito?

just pict-rs things I guess 🤷

[–] hexagonwin@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 month ago

hmm very weird. i also tried wget and it grabs the same 86x96 file. https://termbin.com/gvg9

[–] deaf_fish@midwest.social 7 points 1 month ago

I think you could argue that they're actually trying to mimic real numbers.

[–] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago

Eviltoasts pict-rs is being silly again