The first who joined that Safe Place for Science program. I'm sure there have been others who didn't know about that, or didn't want the publicity, but just left quietly when they realized how bad things were getting.
this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2025
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“Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.”
Good on you expats, may Europe treat you with the respect you deserve.
it's France, the answer is probably not.
Yeah, but at least when their government mistreats them, they actually bring out the guillotines.
Americans used to know how to deal with fascist dictators
they know how to protest.
Lower wages and lower research budgets in Europe are very tangible problems.
The reason USA attract so many high level scientists and researchers, is that they throw more money at it.
Despite that, I'm sure most researchers will find that you can do more with less here in Europe, both on research and with your private economy. And quality of life seems to me to be miles ahead compared to USA.
Well the USA is aiming to fix that by cutting a third of all education spending and by dismantling the entire department of education.
Even lower is more than zero.
Cost of living is significantly lower, and the social safety net means you don't need as much anyway.
My gut feel is wages are so much higher in the US because everyone is responsible for looking after themselves if life turns on them, so you're obliged to stockpile wealth in case you're suddenly jobless or have a giant medical or education bill to contend with.
Absolutely free healthcare and education are big parts of doing more with less, and quality of life.
But it's also easier to buy a house or apartment, and quality food is cheaper, and paid holidays and on and on.
We have so many privileges Americans don't have it's crazy.
I agree, but don't forget that every year, things get harder because everything is trying to find more ways to take that extra money from you. From schools, companies, and government they are all figuring out ways to come up with new mandatory requirements for stuff that normally ends up being a new fee or payment on top of what you used to need. For example when you are in school, you probably need way more certifications in things which costs more money either by a 1 time fee or sometimes yearly fees and a lot of this never existed 20-30 years ago. I feel like we pay for literally everything, and it all keeps going up as well. It's hard to get ahead when everyone wants a piece of your pie.
While that is true, academic wages are still laughably low in Europe, even compared to wages here.
You can earn more after 5 years in the industry than as a full professor in academia. We should pay academics more.
It was one of the reasons I left academia. I doubled my pay within two years.
Attracted
That's what we thought last time under Trump. But it turned out most scientists go for the higher wages and budgets in USA.
scientists and researchers, is that they throw more money at it.
You seem to be using the present tense there rather than the past tense. Are you sure that's still true. I was under the impression the Bibulous Bumbling Bill had slashed research budgets (among other things like medicaid) in order to fund billionaire tax cuts.
Not to mention the attempts to proscribe what can be researched that Harvard is currently litigating
Are you sure that’s still true
Yes.
A lot of the highest paying research is corporate. And despite the shit Trump is doing, the wages are still higher at for instance universities too.
I have no idea how you can even doubt that, despite Trump is targeting everything that might be humane or to save the earth. Everything that has potential profits will probably receive more. Because USA has become very unattractive in many ways.
I feel like it's very strange to not even mention the fact that many, many of these researchers have completely lost, or will lose the grants for the research that is the entire reason for their being in the field in which they are. They literally cannot do what they are there to do anymore. in addition, many additional folks are no longer allowed to work on or publish their projects because they are centered on or use some of Trump's no-no words. There is way more than just salaries causing the brain drain out of the US right now.
Please expand on how the highest paying research is corporate, and how that proves your point. It sounds very much like the hand-wavy stuff people say before they start yelling because they have no argument, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. Are you yourself a researcher?
WTF?
The article even state this fact as a barrier to attract scientists to Europe from USA.
But here you go:
Lyft: $175,144
Flexport: $174,532
Meta: $171,477
Netflix: $168,720
StubHub: $167,700
Google: $167,427
DoorDash: $166,792
eBay: $166,231
Waymo: $163,156
NVIDIA: $162,497
Everybody who has followed this issue even superficially knows this!!
Universities in USA also pay more, because they are very commercially oriented, and American universities compete on prestige, and they have more money than other universities around the world.
Try to look it up, and find info to the contrary if you don't believe it. This is freaking common knowledge!
It has only been 6 months. The effects of this administration will not appear in tables of budgets and salaries yet. Although in simple terms it will probably still look ok, it is far less attractive.
Cost of living matters too. From simple things like how much broadband costs (uk: £30 pcm, usa: $78 pcm) to an ambulance ride (uk: free, usa:$2000). The higher salary is an illusion.
I also note that every company in your list is a tech company. Researchers in other fields are probably not going to be as lucky.
Buying in instrumentation is also now more expensive due to tariffs so your research budget was effectively cut as well as being actually cut. Scientists with approved grants for equipment have had them revoked. Universities are advising not spending funds to provide contingency funds.
Cost of living matters too.
Of course it does, the article also mention that, did you even read the article?
Yes I did. Your point is simply "but... more money!!!" Ignoring that bigger numbers are not the whole story.
Damn I gotta go back to school
Con on your new homes. We'll miss you but know humanity is better off with you there.
-grats? new slang?
No usually my phones keyboard would finish con-gratulations when I double hit spacebar. But the last update decided my keyboard app I've been using for 5 years now with no issues needed Ai. And the Ai decided my 5 years of predictive typing is wrong and I ment con. I'm so annoyed I don't correct it half the time.
That is the best excuse for a typo ever, congrats to you. (Mine still autocorrects correctly, woo)
It used to be known as swyft keyboard. Then Microsoft gobbled it up a couple years back. Now it fucking has copilot. I have never fucking once started a sentence with "Con" I've started a whole fucking bunch with congratulations! (I work in education and that's how I text and email parents when they've been taken off the after school program wait list. Wait list because we don't have the funding to support more children. But my phones Ai got a carve out on this recent budget bill... We are sooo fucked.)
god I wish I could go but I'm just a dork with an Associates 😭
maybe your associate might get a visa, try marrying them
Donald Trumps America is right. This isn’t my America.