If you're not arguing in good faith, that means you're not actually arguing. You're trolling for a reaction with no intention of listening to the other side. There is then, zero point in actually "debating" you because you are not actually participating in a debate.
this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
-7 points (18.2% liked)
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What about people who debate issues they don't agree with and steel man them ? good things have come from this because it causes new people to look at stuff and bring an outside view to things and point out something the activist on either side of a debate haven't noticed.
You mean when they actually construct a better argument than the other side? Like how one would typically perform a debate with the intention of changing someone else's opinion? That doesn't have anything to do with arguing in bad faith.
being good faith doesn't mean you are a good debater.
Christopher Hitchens often argued for stuff he didn't know or care much about but he did an amazing job at it.
Meanwhile a 62 IQ Florida man who thinks the earth is flat might be the most good faith pure of heart debater who beehives that in his heart of heart that the earth is flat. He will be a terrible debater.
There's a big difference between a conversation online and an official competitive debate. All of your comments make me think you don't really know what arguing in good faith means.
Arguing what you believe in is not what "arguing in good faith" actually means. If you're arguing in good faith it means you aren't using any logical fallacies, insults, and are genuinely attempting to have an actual conversation. It has nothing to do with how good of a debater you are, or how valid your argument is.
So you're Florida man could absolutely be arguing in good faith about the beehives in the center of the earth even though that's very easy to disprove, while someone arguing for gar rights can arguing in bad faith when they start saying things like "every single Republican is a Nazi" (strawman argument) even though it's objectively a good thing.
Here is a good article about what "arguing in good faith" actually is.
And yes, I know it's Grammarly which is an AI tool, but I read through it myself and it's a good article.
points at op
That's bait.
arguing in bad faith is trolling, the person isn't really looking to have their mind changed or to have a reasonable discussion
It only matters insofar as time invested.
If someone is just fucking around, trolling, baiting, or deliberately trying to spread some kind of propaganda in the guise of "just talking", it's annoying as fuck to spend fifteen minutes writing up a considered and meaningful comment. Sometimes it's worth it anyway, if only to leave it for anyone coming along later, but it's still a giant waste of effort that could could have been spent on someone or something genuine.
That doesn't include someone playing devil's advocate though. That's fine, though it's good manners to say so up front.
The line can be a little blurry at times, obviously. Some folks just don't engage with others well. But most of the time, it's fairly obvious within one or two exchanges that someone is fucking with you, or they're just really bad at engagement and discussion.
You can't really tell what people are thinking online, you can only see their messages. Words can be clumsy without other means of expression.
So you think twisting people’s words, lying, cherry-picking information, and attacking them personally - rather than addressing their actual point - is a good way to make them change their minds?
I don’t think you really believe that either, but if I were to engage with you in bad faith, that’s what it would look like.
Good faith doesn’t mean you have to be polite - it means you make a genuine effort to understand what someone is actually saying and engage with that, rather than a cartoon version of their argument. That cartoon version might get you cheers from the audience, but it’s not going to change anyone’s mind. And if minds aren’t being changed - and no serious effort is even made to try - then what’s the point of the debate in the first place?
I’d argue that if someone is genuinely trying to persuade another person, it’s virtually impossible to debate in bad faith. Acting in bad faith means you don’t care whether the other person changes their mind - you just want to dunk on them, be mean, pretend they said something they didn’t, and rally a mob to dogpile on them. Then you tell yourself you’ve “won” the debate because you're getting upvotes and they’re not - even though all you've really done is push them further into their corner.
Because there's no use engaging with someone who is not willing to consider new information or alternative viewpoints. Those people have an agenda to push and often come off as hostile or rude. Much better to just downvote and move on.
It discredits their view points. When you debate you are almost never going to convince the other person the goal is to convince the audience or people who haven't made up their minds.
When you debate you are almost never going to convince the other person
Why not? Are you that bad at it?
the goal is to convince the audience
That goes only for trolls and politicians (no, I did not say whether or not a difference exists)
What do you mean by Good? What do you mean by Faith? What do you mean by Matter?
good = opposite of evil.
faith = what ppl believe in when they observe shit they can't understand.
matter = physical stuff
Alright, time for round 2 of bad faith argument, let's dive into defining every word you just used.
Alternatively, your definition of Good simply uses an antonym. That doesn't get us any closer to a definition. Define it again. This time, be careful not to use any word I've asked you to define previously or else I'm going to dismiss the logic of definitions as being Circular.
How can you criticise me without having workable definitions of every word I use?
By the way, I define Matter as "the impulse of the human mind'" so that's what definition we're using in our discussion now. /s