this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2025
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Just entertaining this is true, you DO realize how horrible it is to hear "I think you're more dangerous than a random bear just for existing"? And this isn't supposed to give men lasting mental health issues and extreme social anxiety?
I can't say how it's going to affect all men, but for me (who is a man) that is not how it affects me. The fact that there exists a lot of mysogonistic men doesn't reflect on me. I am confident that I'd be one of the men who'd just leave a woman alone if we ever met in the woods, so knowing that there are a lot of men out their who wouldn't doesn't get me salty at the women who are fearful of them; but rather, it gets me salty at the shithead men out there who are ultimately the root of the women's fear.
Right now, you are ultimately expressing your anger towards the hypothetical victim rather getting angry at the hypothetical asshole.
there's an element too of that in a patriarchal society if you have the position of privilege of existing as a man, it's not enough to not be dangerous towards women. you have to actively help women be safe
You're so close, perhaps you chose your words poorly. Actively helping women be safe is, I'll call it positive misogyny, in that you definitely understand the problem but your solution is still defined by misogyny.
Men don't need to actively help women be safe, because that still doesn't provide full agency to women. You, a man, have to actively stop other men from being unsafe. Either through helping each other grow or force if necessary.
I'm impressed with how close you were to the mark. Seriously I think you understand why the patriarchy is bad. I'm just ust helping you, who I assume is another man, grow hopefully
i will word this differently in the future, thank you. the actions i mean are as you describe: confront men on their bullshit
Awwww are your fee fees hurt
Dude you sound so sad. Yes, dudes suck towards women, a lot. Accept it. It's not a reflection on you personally. But, your reaction is telling (all about ME and MY feelings)
I couldn't give two shits what some random abusive stranger thinks of me online.
It's not like a single instance of abuse by a random would make people care, it's systematic abuse that does that.
This is more of a general comment though.
Bro. I know you're not a rapist, but you're going to have to accept that lots of men are rapists. If you want people to think of men in general as nice people, you need to fight the rapists. Right now you're not doing that.
This is such a horrific take. "If you don't want people to hate you, you need to hate yourself". Is that the message you want to send to people? You should be ashamed of yourself. Everyone deserves an equal chance no matter the gender they were born with. I hope you reconsider your bigoted ways in the future.
Its interesting how you interpreted their premises:
As "if you don't want people to hate you, you need to hate yourself". I don't understand where you are getting this take from these three premises, could you further explain?
"If you want people to think of men in general as nice people you need to fight the rapists". You see no problem with that statement? It assumes men are rapists by default. I do not think of men as rapists by default. That is, by definition, sexism. It says "hey unless you prove that you're one of the Good Ones I'm going to assume otherwise". You're okay with that statement and comfortable with it being applied to other groups?
No, it assumes that rapists are men by default, which is eminently reasonable.
(At least) a full third of the non-male population reports occurrences of sexual assault (which admittedly isn't rape) by a man. So I'm not sure why that doesn't offend you much more than the fact that hardly anyone reports being attacked by a bear.
Probably because people are around people 24/7 and people are only around bears a short time? You wanna compare the time spent in close proximity with men and being raped vs bears and being attacked? This is why this is such a dumb argument. "Wow sharks are pretty deadly" Vending machines kill more people per year. Because people are around them more, not because they're inherently more dangerous than sharks. Good lord.
you're still misunderstanding something here. bears act consistently. men are a spectrum. if a woman encounters a bear in the woods, she can prepare for that. she knows to back away slowly, and if the bear approaches to make herself big. if that's not enough there's a decent chance she has a can of bear mace on her.
if she encounters a man the mental calculus is different because some men are huge problems, some men are decent helpful people, some men are decent helpful people performatively and she has to continually assess if man is a huge problem acting like he isn't.
part of the reason women say they'd rather encounter a random bear than a random man in the woods is that they've spent a lifetime around men and what to do about one is far more complicated than what to do about an 800 lb coward who acts very consistently
Hey if you dated an 800 lb coward that's on you.
Alright, you want me to level with you? I'll level with you. I've been HORRIBLY abused by women. I'm not talking little cigarette burns (though I have those too), I'm talking big ass knife gashes that are still painfully scarred 25 years on. I have been physically, sexually, and mentally abused and tortured for decades. And the only way I choose a bear which equals death over the vague possible CHANCE I could be abused again is if I was suicidal again. This is such a dumb argument. I'm not talking about this anymore.
encountering a bear != spending time with bear
i'm sorry you went through add that. but the bear is not going to kill you on sight or emotionally manipulate you or rape you, which is what's being got at. i just ask that you look at those awful experiences of rape culture you had and have some empathy for that it creates a culture of fear that men and women both exist in as they navigate the world, and that makes it to where it's easier to imagine a scenario you can plan for and deal with than a scenario where you are nervous the entire time.
You're not taking about this anymore because you've been proven ridiculously wrong in a comment thread bro
You're feelings got hurt
You're probably not great with women
This CUT YOU because "not all men!"
Self reflect. There's s reason everyone is saying the same thing to you bro. There's a reason this makes you angry.
Your*
No where in that statement is it suggested to consider ALL men rapists. Where are you getting this? Fighting "the rapists" means fighting the rapists, not all men? You are interpretting this in a way that goes way beyond what was stated.
Are you claiming there aren't men that are rapists?
So why wouldn't you fight against these rapist men? Because they are men and you don't think of them as rapist by default?
We are specifically calling out rapists men, not all men. You are the one who claims that.
I don't want any rapists to exist. They should all be eliminated.
You should only hate yourself if you would rape or otherwise harm the woman in the woods.
Everything else is irrelevant.
You can't argue people into liking you. It doesn't work like that.
You can argue people into tolerating you, that's what the queer and civil rights movements have been doing. But once you're tolerated, arguing doesn't get you any farther. If you want to be liked, you need to be kind.
Do you think you are being kind in this moment?
Yeah. I'm trying to help you. Your current strategy isn't making you happy. I want you to be happy. I'm trying to explain how to do that.
Oh, honey. I'm very happy lol. I get depressed when I see people like you spewing bigoted hate but I've grown used to it. It's okay. I'd rather jump off a bridge than have your bigoted beliefs but everyone has the right to their own opinion.
Where did they say this?? I see nothing telling anyone to hate themselves. They're saying to fight rapists and that doing so will give men a better reputation. Please explain what you mean by "need to hate yourself"
@reliv3@lemmy.world said:
which is a based take
So, "I know you're one of the good ones, but you're going to have to accept that lots of black men are criminals. If you want people to think of black men in general as nice people, you need to fight the criminals. Right now you're not doing that." would be an acceptable thing to say to a black person?
Even if statistically the classic "50% 13% racist statistic" is true, it's still seen as wrong to be scared of black men with no other reason than their skin color, why then is it ok to be scared of black men with no other reason than their gender?
I posit that in both cases generalization is harmful, both to society at large and to those generalized, statistics or not.
Like don't get me wrong stay safe out there, but also don't get caught up making generalizations based on demographics, that historically has been a "bad" thing.
Not for nothing, "all men are rapists" is fairly new, it used to be "the hypersexual ne*ro rape beast" during the Jim Crow era.
https://jimcrowmuseum.ferris.edu/brute/homepage.htm
Maybe it's time to drop the "All X does Y" thing after all? I know then it's harder to sell fear to swaths of people but like, good?
What more should we be doing to fight rapists? It's likely that rape is already proscribed legally and morally wherever most commenters are from.
Dismantle capitalism. Pedophiles like Trump are using their money to get away with it.
Also, support women who complain about rapists.
I do support women who complain about rapists.
Your first point makes you sound unhinged though - that's not capitalism that's just power.
Let's try a quick thought experiment:
Say you're driving down the road and following all the rules. You come to a gradual stop at a red light, and you're suddenly hit from behind because the driver behind you wasn't paying attention.
This accident is not your fault in any way. You did everything right, the other driver fucked up.
But does that mean you can just walk away and everything will be taken care of for you? No, you have to contact insurance companies, arrange for vehicle repairs and alternate transportation until it's done, notify law enforcement and other agencies under some circumstances, etc.
So why do you have to do anything if it isn't your fault?
It's because fault and responsibility are not always the same thing. It sucks, it's unfair, but it's just how things work. Sometimes we have to clean up other peoples' messes.
When it comes to the man or bear question, which is also a thought experiment rather than a personal indictment, it's not the fault of all men that many women feel the way they do about us. But even for those of us that didn't cause the problem, it is still our responsibility to acknowledge the lived experiences of others and listen without making it about ourselves.
Enough other men are shitty towards women to make a lot of them sincerely consider whether they would be safer with an average man or average bear. Nobody said anything about you personally or whether they were choosing guaranteed death over time with you.
Empathy is the only way to take meaningful steps toward changing the perception. Invalidating women's feelings or pretending the pattern doesn't exist won't help anyone, including yourself.
Let's say someone says "I'd rather choose the bear than a black man", citing their life experience of violence with black men in particular as the reason for this. Should we have empathy for this position? It is their lived experience after all.
Here's a short video for you, it's a compilation of women on a bus just existing in a public space: https://www.tiktok.com/@specere/video/7472932570162924831
Yes, not every man on those busses is being creepy. But if there's one on every bus that is what women are going to remember. Now imagine a woman who takes the bus regularly dealing with this every day, then being asked if she'd rather encounter a random bear in the woods or a random man in the woods.
She's encountered random men in public spaces and this is what has happened. No wonder she doesn't want to encounter them in the woods.
Just about every person is more dangerous than your average bear encounter.....
The vast majority of bears that people run into in the wild are black bears, which are mostly harmless.
I as an experienced outdoorsman would much rather stumble across a bear in the deep woods than another lone person, especially in a survival situation. Desperate people are the most dangerous animals by far.
If this is what gives you extreme social anxiety then you are in serious need of professional help. That sounds like more of a you problem a societal one.
how is this being upvoted?? is lemmy really this misogynist?
Dating men is a minefield. Discarding caution because "it might not be necessary" goes against the point of caution. They feel safer encountering a bear because the bear leaves them alone if left alone. Some men, on the contrary, would actively do something bad even if left alone. The point is not that all or most men are like this. It's that they can be and assuming that they aren't is unsafe.
No?? Strangers not trusting you is perfectly normal. If you think you are owed trust because all women will magically know that you're trustworthy, you aren't trustworthy.
My guy. What the fuck. Why would this question give you anxiety? It's not about you. Why are you taking this so personally it's giving you anxiety?
Oh, won't you think of the men! 🙄