this post was submitted on 28 Dec 2025
519 points (99.8% liked)

PhilosophyMemes

351 readers
641 users here now

Memes must be related to phil.

The Memiverse:
!90s_memes@quokk.au
!y2k_memes@quokk.au
!sigh_fi@quokk.au

founded 4 months ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

What trauma caused her to be a bigot? Never heard that before now

[–] lemmyseikai@lemmy.world 9 points 15 hours ago (2 children)
[–] SARGE@startrek.website 20 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I know several women who have survived domestic abuse and assaults.

Almost none of them are bigots. The only couple I can think of that are were shitty humans before they got married.

I think she has just always been trash.

[–] lemmyseikai@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Are you saying I’m making a hasty generalization?

I’m not claiming “survivors become bigots.” I’m talking about this case: it’s plausible her assault left her with fear that she later converted into ideology. Becoming extremely wealthy then gave her the platform and the insulation to reinforce that fear in an echo chamber until it hardened into vitriol. None of which removes her responsibility.

Bigots come from all kinds of backgrounds for all kinds of reasons. In her case, trauma + power + echo-chambering instead of healing seems like a plausible pathway.

And to be clear: none of us has the information to know whether she held these views before the assault, and we definitely can’t know the counterfactual of who she would’ve become without it.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 5 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

No, I'm saying "trauma induced bigotry" isn't a thing.

And honestly I don't care to debate whether a bigot got their bigotry honestly or if something in their life might "better explain" it, at the end of the day a bigot is a bigot.

Just because I know (insert genocidal dictator here) was mistreated as a child doesn't mean I take pity on them when they decide that's a good reason to genocide.

[–] lemmyseikai@lemmy.world 2 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I agree on the moral bottom line: bigotry is bigotry, and it isn’t excused by someone’s past.

Where we disagree is whether the “why” matters. I’m not asking for pity or moral credit; I’m talking about causality because prevention requires understanding how these beliefs form and get reinforced. “Explanation” isn’t “justification.”

If you’re claiming trauma can’t be a contributing factor in any case, that’s a stronger claim than “it doesn’t excuse it,” and I don’t think it’s self-evident. Fear and threat-perception can shape ideology, and some people channel that into scapegoating. Especially so when insulated by wealth, platform, and echo chambers.

Also, bringing up genocide shifts the topic from mechanisms of prejudice to extreme hypotheticals. The point stands without that comparison.

If you don’t want to discuss causes at all, that’s your call. If so, we’re not actually disagreeing about accountability, just about whether analysis is worth doing.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 6 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I'll admit my wording could have been better, and if I'm perfectly honest I've got personal things going on at work and let my irritation show here so apologies for that.

I'm all for trying to root out potential causes, and eliminating the at their source at every possibility.

I am also of the opinion (because there is no way you could prove it to be fact) that you can throw everything she experienced at someone else and they won't be a bigot, as my own anecdotal experience says abuse doesn't lead you there.

That said, in nature vs nurture I tend to side with nurture, and therefore everything she experienced up to then may have tipped her toward bigotry and then abuse cemented her path in that direction. And once she got rich, all the people who want to be close to her will reinforce her views whether they're shitty or not.

It's a complicated mix of a lot of things but I personally don't believe that the abuse alone can ever be pointed to as "the reason"

Side note: I only bring up the genocidal dictator bit because bigots often put exactly those people and their ideals center-stage to their beliefs. Maybe not in this instance (I doubt Rowling is an actual neonazi), but "trans people should be allowed to exist" sounds exactly like "jews/uygur/out-group shouldn't be allowed to exist" to me so it seems to fit in my mind.

[–] lemmyseikai@lemmy.world 3 points 12 hours ago

I appreciate the reply. I have nothing to build on from here and I appreciate both your take and your willingness to be clear.

Thanks so much for the discussion.