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It's insane how twisted in the head you have to be to think that killing your daughter is the honorable thing to do!
Religion is harmful to both individuals and society. Extreme religion is extremely harmful to both individuals and society.
Not sure if this is relevent, but I just wanna share my story.
My mom wants me dead because I have depression.
Not schizophrenia, not sociopathy/psychopathy, just being a little more sad than "normal".
The reasoning? "Because you wouldn't be able to enjoy life anyways, and your life is meaning less", threatning to leave me out of the will because "you can just get welfare from the government", despite me helping her with a lot of her stuff like bussiness licenses, filing taxes, translation (they are first-gen immigrants), etc. Like wtf is this concept of leaving someone with nothing when they have been so helpful throughout your life, just because "you have depression and you are no longer useful to society". Then put obstacles in me getting antidepresdants because "you can't be relying on meds for the rest of your life, just go outside" bitch wtf? Go outside to the ICE agents swarming the streets?
(I'm Chinese-American)
I mean at lesst I'm not dead yet, so I probably don't deserve to complain too much, some people have it worse than me, I mean this person in the article literally got murdered. Tbh there were moments when I was a teen that I thought my mom was gonna stab me when I sleep. The fact I'm even alive is a miracle.
This toxic culture is why I never want to return to PRC, not to mention, the CCP problem.
But... now... the USA is also on fire becauses... I mean... you know... current events...
Life is going great! 🫠
Can't complain! (literally can't complain else you get arrested)
In my country you can't disinherit your children.
That's horrible, I don't really know what to say, except best wishes to you.
I always thought Chinese were a more pragmatic people than most, but this is not pragmatic of your parents, this is cynical and evil.
Chinese culture is like you pretend to be very nice to other people, but the abuse is within the family.
Like the 红包 (red packets) for Lunar New Year is so... wild.
Like so you give your friend's kids $50 and their parents give your kids $50 then pretend like this is an actual gift, but then when they go home, the parents are like: "给我帮你保管" (Let me help you safeguard it)
Like... what is the point of the red packets then? Money gets shuffled but it just end up in the same people's hands.
I mean at least that's how my parents did it, I think my aunt's more Americanized family actually let their kids buy stuff?
I went to my cousin's house once (not willingly btw) and their family arrived in the US earlier than mine, so they cousins were born on US soil (as opposed to me who is first-gen immigrant), their father (my uncle) was from Hong Kong, so basically very western-minded.
They had an entire game system (Nintendo Wii something) in their house, I never had a game system lol, I was so jealous. Tbf they are slightly richer (like "middle class" rich), but even later on when my parents got more disposable income (like teenage years), I never got any games, or toys.
Like the vibes I was getting was that their household was still very strict, but not they actually get to have fun sometimes.
I think its this "filial piety" thing that is fucking toxic as hell.
I guess I see this with politics as well. I mean on the surface you never see Xi acting like the buffoons in the US-Republican party (I mean y'all know those crazy trump tweets and thinnly veiled racism, that sort of crazy stuff). The CCP might not outright do crazy shit like that, they do put up this act that make them look good, but deep down, they are both the same. In this analogy, the country is like the family, the civillians are like the children, children gets yelled at or even beaten (police harassing dissidents), but then the parents (the CCP) talks to everyone else (other countries) like everything is fine.
Family, Country, these patterns repeat.
I mean on the other hand, the US is like that conservative man in the suburb that open-carries a gun everywhere (the 18 aircraft carriers and hundreds of military bases world wide) and sees everyone as a threat ("inverventions" in other countries)
Seems like culture and politics are so intertwined.
(I feel like I'm rambling... idk if this wall of text even makes sense)
A lot of that makes sense, and the issue of just pretending to be nice is absolutely also an American thing. That's being superficial, and that's just about stereotypical American.
And absolutely for many countries culture and politics are intertwined. IDK so much about China, but for USA the culture of violence is absolutely both in politics and in the population. USA is a very atypically violent country for a democracy.
Nazis. Those Nazis that want to hurt you, have NO value whatsoever.
My goodness! This is a lot for you to have to go through any day of the week, let alone also with depression. You're doing great that you can talk about it, and I hope you have a community and/or friendship group to fill in the void she has created.
Leaving (or even threatening to leave) you out of the will is super messed up, I hope you have siblings/family that would stand up for you, even if only after the fact.
She may have her own mental issues or even past trauma that she's projecting onto her relationship with you and your depression. I dont say that to excuse or justify her, just to acknowledge that you aren't who she thinks you are, your depression isn't what she thinks it is, and your journey is within your control (relatively speaking), not hers.
Regarding the united states: we can't really control it. However, we can control our own 'back yards'. Find one thing, no matter how small, that you dont like and try to fix that in your life or your community. Something obtainable. (Eg, dont like single use plastics bc planet, dont want to pay for reusable bags bc oligarchs...then make reusable bags 🎉 - instructions Its ok to start small. 1000 people doing little things as a start is way better than a nobody doing anything because it 'WoNt MaKe A dIfFeReNcE'
Note: There is exactly zero religion involved in honor killings; this is a 100% cultural act. Here are some choice quotes from Wikipedia:
-Wikipedia
So yeah, this is a big problem in many parts of the world and if your reaction to innocent women losing their lives is to make a tired and irrelevant point, then please don't.
Duelling was rarely to the death, and between consenting individuals whom were both armed.
Seems odd to draw a comparison between that and unarmed children getting murdered by family members.
It's more about extreme actions done in the name of "protecting honor".
~~honour~~ ego.
Funny then that when they move to another culture, and take it with them, it is always muslims.
I live in a country where I've heard a 15-16yo Pakistani kid on a packed bus state he was going to kill his sister because he didn't like who she was dating - and that he had hit her before because of it. I don't think most people have any idea how normalised it is in their culture. The country is England.
I’m willing to bet this is less about religion and more about an awful piece of shit human. There’s many cases of people killing their kids in the US that have nothing to do with religion. Just assholes that shouldn’t exist.
I do agree that religion sucks and encourages awful people, but to murder your kid you have to be a deranged human to begin with.
We can take a look at honour killings ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_States
Something in common with them all, I don't know what 🤔
If you label "when people from the middle east kill family members for disobeying the family" as honor killings, then yes it's going to be a list of primarily Muslim people.
If you replace "from the middle east" with "from Italian-American culture" you get a list of mafioso.
If you replace it with "from the Italian peninsula c.0 AD" then you get a list of Roman patriarchs who had the literal power of life or death legally over their offspring and numbered rather than named their useless daughters.
Islam did not make these people kill their families. It did however make an American decide to call it an "honor killing".
Yes, 'honor killing' happens at different rates in different cultures, and it being an important factor in Middle Eastern culture could explain a higher rates in these cultures. But I am wondering, do we kill our daughters and wifes less here in the West? Or do we just give up different motives than honor? The US certainly has a very high femicide rate, higher than most Middle Eastern countries. (according to this website. Haven't found infanticide rates yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Doesn't split it by gender. Obviously there are much worse places (looking at you, Caribbean), but the U.S. needs to look in the mirror.
Okay I looked at these numbers and holy fuck, the only Middle Eastern country higher than America is Iraq, with 3.0 vs 2.5 per 100k women. For context the Iraqi data is taken from 2013, smack dab in the middle of the ISIS reign of terror. Like this isn't even a gotcha anymore I actually feel bad for American women who have to deal with this shit. There's no data for Pakistan, but for example Egypt is at 0.5, Jordan 0.6 and Palestine 0.3. With Egypt (which is middle-of-the-pack for the region) lower than most of Europe, a whole bunch of people should be doing a whole bunch of introspection before crying about other people's (admittedly vile) traditions.
But it's got nothing to do with 'honor' so it's okay. /s
You can listen to podcasts of Muslim "elders" and they openly laugh and boast about how women "should not even be heard" when those elders live in non-Eastern countries. Yes, England, I'm looking at you.
Ok, you specifically listed a small fraction of children murdered by their parents. Of course religion has issues and encourages and enables awful abuses. But if you are a parent who is capable of murdering your child, you are fucked in the head with or without religion. That’s all I’m saying.
You know exactly what you racist cunt. You just don't want to say it because it would defeat the dogwhistling
Islam is a religion.
Typical deflection. "We're not racist we just hate islam", said every nazi for 20 years
Islam is a religion.
One of the core societal demands of the prophet Mohamed, blessings and peace be upon him, was to end the practice of burying daughters alive. At the time a daughter was considered a disgrace, so some pre-islamic Arabs murdered their daughters this way.
The Quran is also very explicit about the rights of women and the correct behavior towards them, something that is often ignored in societies that claim to be muslim, but evidently did not read much.
"OG Islam" is fundamentally opposed to femicide. Femicides aren't a religious but a cultural issue and prevalent outside of religious groups too.
"Don't kill women" making "OG Islam" somehow "better" is a pretty low fucking bar.
Nearly all religion is a regressive cancer on society used as a scapegoat to do terrible things.
That's ignoring their point, though. They are simply pointing out that the father in this article is not following the Quran, they're following some other twisted ideology that uses the Quran as an excuse, despite the source material explicitly telling them not to do this type of behavior.
As a side note, I'm not religious, and I do believe that organized religion has been the cause of horrible atrocities. I just think your response isn't really addressing what the other person was debating, but maybe I'm wrong.
Fun fact: The Quran doesn't feature into these, not even as an excuse. My reply to the parent comment has more details, but people who do these vile acts take "honor violations warrant death" to be an axiom on its own, just as a birthday warrants a celebration and a sick family member warrants a visit. I mean, there's a reason the words "Islam" and "religion" feature exactly 0 times in the article.
To be fair, the article does start of with referring to Pakistan as "Muslim-majority country". This is probably where the association came from.
What? That's not what a scapegoat is, idiot
A scapegoat is someone used to blame as an alternative to yourself. Religion isn't really a "person", but it's often used as a way to shift blame away with a "God told me to do it" and God is considered a person driving most religions.
It's really not that hard to understand what I meant from context clues and, given my comment's positive voting average and your negative one, you seem to be in the minority of not getting it.
Seems to me that Islam is discriminating strongly against women, and that could absolutely be a factor to prevent this sick culture from being abandoned.
I know there are Muslims who are good people, but I don't think the religion is helping.
I knew many Muslims when I lived in Copenhagen, from many different countries, and common for the men were that they were way more discriminating against women than is normally acceptable among cultural Danes. They also commonly claimed that the women preferred it that way! For instance regarding very stereotypical strong gender roles.
I also don't believe the honor thing is without heavy influence from religion, and religion is helping preserve these medieval standards in modern times.
I know there are Muslims that are more modern and more moral, and just like most Christians have abandoned ancient doctrines that are clearly bad.
It just seems to me that Islam has not progressed away from such practices as much as Christianity generally has.
For instance by far the most Muslims still believe apostasy is a sin that should be punished. In a modern society that is unacceptable.
It's true, rights for women in the Islamic world and their treatment is far better than in the western world!
Exactly!
I really wish the west would catch up to the Islamic world with how it treats its women. I especially like how they are so progressive when it comes to gays and lesbians, inshallah !
/s
I think it's best you include "/s" in this one!
updated thanks!
Muhammad wanting to save all the young girls? For himself?
Yawn. Now talk about Sharia courts and Sharia law, where a woman can be sentenced to death for ~~being raped~~ cheating, ~~female genital mutilation is allowed~~ and generally, women ~~can be sentenced to death~~ given appropriate sentences and outside Muslim men ~~deny Sharia law to outsiders~~ keep the sacred secrets of Islam between themselves.
That's not what the official guidebook says though. You can lie or be in denial, but we can read.
I mean... no? Like, like it or hate it the Quran is pretty clear about this. If you disagree, then give me a verse number.
lol. Even scholars agree that its full of misogynistic bullshit that should be read in a symbolic way. Nice try though but we've had this debate for decades.
Then give them the verse number like they asked.
Good god, they haven't read their own book?
Nope, you haven't. That's why they are asking you for a verse that says what you claim it says.