All from in this thread in !world@lemmy.world about a chant at a British music festival where an artist said "death, death to the IDF".
After other users were quoting that chant in the comments and had comments removed and banned, the hero of our story, @theacharnian@lemmy.ca (appearing as "acargitz") pointed out that under international law, fighting an occupying force is legitimate. But apparently not under world news rules, as their removed comments and the many explanations from mods make clear in the thread.
Equally against the rules is the call for the eradication of an organisation or business, even without an explicit call to violence against individual members of the business.
In the same thread: user @DeathToTheIDF@lemmings.world had comments removed for being anti-American "(again)", though I couldn't see the first time. It's not even clear to me how the removed comments were anti-American.
Bonus points for the "DC Comics" removal reason. Though this seems to be incompetence, rather than malice.
It's not "defending genocide" to say !world@lemmy.world does not allow advocating violence.
I stand on my record calling for Netanyahu and the rest of Likud to be arrested and prosecuted at a Tribunal in the Hague, but somehow not advocating for murder = pro genocide to the asshats on lemmy.
You do realise that under international law Palestinians have right to defend themselves and kill members of the occupying force, right?
So, first off, there's no such thing as "International Law". It's a suggestion at best.
https://archive.globalpolicy.org/international-justice/general-articles-on-international-justice/52279-international-law-isnt-real.html
Second, our community policies are exactly that, OUR COMMUNITY POLICIES. It has fuck all to do with International relations.
Real people, in the real world, can and do do what they want. When they cross the border into our communities, they are bound by OUR rules.
As I told the other user in the thread with the removed comments - Don't like the rules?
Thanks for giving me the feed for my community
I mean, everyone should read up on how "International Law" is an absolute failure.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/04/amnesty-international-sounds-alarm-international-law-flagrant-rule-breaking-governments-corporate-actors/
If there's no enforcement, there is no law. That's how we got a 2nd fucking Trump term.
Keep digging 🤣
Sure, you want more links about how you have no idea what you're saying?
I can literally do this all day:
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/ideas/law/65614/does-international-law-exist-david-allen-green-israel-russia
Again, the problem is enforcement. You can say "x is illegal", but unless there's an agency willing to actually enforce that law, it means exactly fuck all.
You probably aren't old enough to remember when George W. Bush was saying the same things about Iraq that people are now saying about Iran, but the one that stuck out to me was that we had to invade Iraq because they were in violation of 16 UN resolutions.
https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/09/text/20020912.html
Folks like me were pointing out we don't actually give two shits about UN resolutions because, at the time, Israel was in violation of over EIGHTY of them and we weren't making noises about invading THEM. It would have been over 100 except the US held veto power on resolutions.
So, again, there is no such thing as "international law" as there's no international body capable of or willing to enforce it.
Always the memes when you can't refute the facts. LOL.
I just find you ridiculous in general, I don't even have an agenda to call you out on or anything.
Do you really intend to stick to this line? Do you ever intend to address the fact that it has been very clearly pointed out that the comment that got the other user, @theacharnian@lemmy.ca, banned was not a call to violence? Or will you keep deflecting and ignoring that part in order to maintain the facade?
It very clearly was a call to violence in a CHAIN of removed comments. You're attempting to take it out of that context and claiming "Well, they didn't do nuffin".
Fuck that argument. I'm not going to be trapped in the by degrees nonsense like that. They know what they were arguing and you're being disingenuous if you try to say otherwise.
Here's the full context for anyone dumb enough to buy your bullshit framing, read the ALL CAPS FROM THEIR OWN COMMENT.
First in the chain:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=562528
Removed Comment Death, death to the IDF!! by BroBot9000
reason: Call for death
Next:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=73704
Removed Comment I'm advocating for the right of the Palestians to fight for their freedom. Do you deny that right? And for good measure, if I advocate for Ukrainians to fight for their freedom, VIOLENTLY, WITH GUNS, AND WITH KILLING OFF THE INVADERS TO THEIR HOMELAND, am I also breaking the TOS? If I say that my god damn ancestors DID THE RIGHT THING and KILLED WITH VIOLENCE AND GUNS the Italian fascists that invaded Greece in 1940, does THAT break the TOS? by acargitz@lemmy.ca
reason: Advocating violence
Removed and warned a second time, against the rules of the community.
User persists a THIRD time earning the ban:
Removed Comment Death to Israeli apartheid. Death to the institutions that uphold the Israeli Apartheid. Death to the institutions that uphold the occupation, the disposession and the genocide of Palestinians. Death to the structures that maim the humanity of both the colonizers and the colonized. Long live all the people who live in Palestine from the river to the sea. Long live the children, the life, all children, all life, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, and other. Palestinian, Druze, Bedouin, Samaritan, Mizrahi, Ashkenaz, Sephardic, and other. "The padrone is dead. But Alfredo Berlingheri is alive and we mustn't kill him. [...] Because he is living proof that the padrone is dead." by acargitz@lemmy.ca
reason: Repeated calls for violence
Not even a permanent ban, like yours, a 3 day ban for being repeatedly stupid.
But I'm sure when it expires they'll be totally rational, right? Um, right?
Based on my mod experience, that never happens, but outside trolls and spammers we give everyone a chance to learn from their mistakes.
My expectation is I'll have to permaban them before the month is over, but we'll see.
Explain my permaban then, when everything I posted was fucking correctly and reputably sourced and has nearly all literally come to pass... go on
Heres the OG text of what got me banned permanently in a comment for anyone curious, I posted about this in December. BTW gold has gone up over 40% since then https://lemmy.world/comment/13431373
I'm only responding here because you're saying "they know what they were arguing and you’re being disingenuous if you try to say otherwise" and because you're making a whole bunch of assumptions about my intent and my ...rationality. Basically, I'm only responding because you're displaying a big degree of bad faith towards me, to the point where you're not understanding what I'm actually saying, especially in the third comment that got me the ban.
The comment with the all caps, mentioning Greece and Ukraine, fine, sure. I tested the line, asking specifically about the TOS and got burned. That's your line. I still think it's a silly line, but that's your line. Fine.
But the comment you banned me for is where I think you completely misunderstood me. Here's the comment:
I thought the last line, the reference to the padrone would be making it crystal clear, but it didn't. It's from the movie 1900 and I guess my mistake was believing that this is a classic that everyone has seen. My bad. Here is what goes on: after the revolution, the peasants want to kill the Alfredo character (DeNiro), who is the padrone, the boss. But Depardieu's character, Olmo, makes the case that they should in fact not kill Alfredo, because his role as padrone is dead and Alfredo, no longer being the padrone is just a regular person now. The padrone is dead, Alfredo lives. Imagine if the Jacobins hadn't guillotined Louis-XV, the line would be "the king is dead, Louis is alive and we mustn't kill him, because his continued existence is living proof that the institution of the monarchy is dead: he is now just a dude like the rest of us".
My argument here is that the institution of Israeli apartheid must die, to free the Israelis themselves from the shackles of being "the padrone". That's why I write underneath long live all life, and list explicitly Judaism among the religions and the various Jewish nationalities (Mizrahi, Ashkenaz, Sephardi). They are Alfredo. May they live! And may their continued existence be statement to the death of the "padrone" role, that Israeli nationalism has been ascribing to them.
When I say "death to israeli apartheid" and "death to the institutions and structures that uphold it with all its horrible outcomes" I am not advocating violence against people, I am advocating the destruction of horrific systems and institutions. I am saying the equivalent of "death to slavery", "death to patriarchy", "death to capitalism". And I'm adding explicitly in the people that will benefit from the death of these horrific systems and institutions precisely the groups of people that are currently benefiting from them. I'm not saying "death to the whites", I am saying "Death to slavery and its institutions so that whites don't have to be slavers".
If, despite what I think, you understood all of that and still somehow construed my writing as "repeated calls to violence", I don't know what else to say.
Edit: in fact I think you're also misrepresenting the context of my 1900 comment. It was not a follow up on the Greece/Ukraine comment. Instead, I was responding at a different branch of the thread, below a comment where someone was making the argument that "death to Apple" is not a threat of violence against the Apple CEO and employees. It was already in the context of discussing "death of institutions" vs of people.
This mod is abusive and I asked 9 months ago for him to be fired due to sexism and supporting a sexist commenter
fwiw, I've never even heard of the movie 1900 before, let alone seen it. I think I've only seen 1 Depardieu movie...maybe 1.5 (not sure if he has a cameo/archive appearance in the 2nd film of the pair): Jean de Florette.
But anyway, yeah I think your edit here really hits the mark. The comment is just so clearly not a call for violence. Both the context in which it was made and the content of it make that very clear.
What do you mean not everyone knows the filmography of Bernardo Bertolucci?! /s Yea, my bad. It's a great movie, you should watch it.
So, because an earlier comment was interpreted as inciting violence, a user is no longer allowed to amend their point to more narrowly criticise the institutions that are causing genocide? That's some serious bullshit you're pulling there. If that's the level of logic you're using, I have little doubt you'll find some justification for "I'll have to permaban them before the month is over" to end up being true, that a mod attempting to actually apply rules with a modicum of fairness or common sense would not.
So the many users that have complaints about your moderation are asshats, you are right and everyone else is wrong. Gotcha. You really shouldn't be modding on Lemmy if that's your outlook. Mods who take feedback onboard in a constructive way are actually well liked by the communities they moderate. Maybe you should give it a try sometime?
PTB yet again, unfortunately.
The folks here on Lemmy aren't advocating for violence. They (and all of us) are suffering the effects of America's violence on the world and are simply trying to resist that violence. The US has had an official policy of destabilising the Middle East for decades, as did the British before them. Countless lives have been lost due to that policy. Most recently the US has aided and abetted the genocide in Gaza with vast quantities of weapons shipments. And the US participated in the bombing of Iran based on nothing but vibes. The US is unarguably at this point a rogue state that has now not only turned on its allies, but also turned on its own citizens. If you aren't at least thinking about violently resisting what the US government is up to at this stage, then I don't know what's wrong with you. I guess it's lucky you live in a privileged white neighbourhood where non-whites were excluded, so all those ICE deportations and protests hopefully won't inconvenience you too much this time around, like the BLM protests did. I'd hate for you to stop caring about the Palestinians because you got held up in traffic.
So many people in a community devoted to bitching about moderation complain about me. Consider the audience.
They don't hate me personally, they hate being moderated. And when you look at their modlogs, you see why. These aren't innocent little snowflakes.
Yourself included:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=268381
(I forgive the .ml ban, EVERYONE gets banned by .ml. It's a lemmy rite of passage!)
Yes, it's everyone ELSE who is wrong and you're just a wittle victim who is power tripping bc you have no hobbies /cry
What are we supposed to look at?
Just the usual bans. All commonplace for participants here.
It's Palestinians fundamental right to armed resistance and it is people right to express it . Keep doing excuses. Netanyahu and rest of likud will never be arrested so let Palestinians use their right to kill the invader and don't tell us not to express that fundamental right
They are welcome to, but nobody is allowed to call for violence in our communites. It's right there in the rules.
Their right to revolution doesn't supercede our right to run our communities according to our rules.
Don't complain about the backslash then for your stupid rules. Nobody care about your dumb excuses. Death to the idf whatever you like it or not
So who is it okay to call for violence against, and eho is it not? You'd get less hate if you clarified.
It's never OK to call for violence, not in our Lemmy.
If there was an armed thug murdering defenseless children on a street, and there was someone calling to kill the thug to stop children being murdered, would you ban the person calling to defend the children?
You, sir, need to separate real life from the online world.
Nobody is saying not to intervene in real life actions happening before you. But if you want to be the "Internet Tough Guy", yes, that bullshit will get removed.
Answer the fucking question.
If you advocate for violence in our communities, your comment will be removed. Full stop. I don't see how I can make it clearer. Do you need single syllable words?
Answer the fucking question. Simple yes or no will suffice.
I can't answer yes or no to a disingenous question asked in bad faith:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
Not in our lemmy lol. Lemmy as a aplatform do not belong to anybody
It doesn't. But lemmy.world does, and the individual communities on it also do.
Ask the folks on lemm.ee how not belonging to anybody worked out. lemmy.one is following soon.
Each community has their own rules, same as each instance does.
Except when violence is the default, against someone you dont consider a person.
Then you can call for it to continue, and only asking for it to stop is violent.
Oh, how could I forget, you're just "following orders". What a good little collaborator you are.
You're actions, however minor in the global scale they are, are absofuckinglutely defending genocide, you slimy little prick.
Namecalling isn't the way to go about this. I get it, you're passionate. I hate .world too. But calm down with the name calling; it dilutes your argument.
Name calling? His last name means "dick" in Hindi. Prick is literally his last name.
Oh, and as a side little note, I'll insult zionists till the day I die, and I don't give a flying fuck about that liberal "civility" bullshit, nor do I care if you think me being mean hurts my argument, you knob. The only good zionist is one in a cell phone video with a red triangle above their head.
Hey, you do you, boo. But I can't take you seriously when you talk like that. It actually doesn't matter if I take you seriously or not tho, so keep on keepin' on.