this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2026
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Been a long time Debian user but with the recent AI decision I am planning on moving on so anyone have an anti-AI recommendations? I understand its being used in the kernel as well but are there any distros taking a full anti-AI approach to the parts of the code they control?

Since folks seem a little confused on what I am referring to here is the mailing list page regarding the use of gen ai without disclosure vote: https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2026/08/msg00360.html

Phoronix article on it: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Debian-Votes-Responsible-AI-Use

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[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 39 points 19 hours ago (3 children)

I'd say wait and see what they actually do. People are super trigger happy with shitstorms these days. But maybe wait for them to actually do something bad?!

[–] WorkingPie@feddit.online 44 points 18 hours ago (4 children)

LLMs were created with the mass theft of others work by corporations that are now reselling that same information while making billions off it. Thats enough for me to want to step back from any project utilizing these tools.

[–] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 21 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

making billions off it

Lol, no its all circular investing and will soon fail to prop itself up. Then all that stolen work gets sent to open weights for everyone to use. Still not the best, but you can't close Pandora's box.

[–] amd@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

When the bubble bursts, do you think Altman and Amodei won’t be richer than when they started?

[–] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 1 points 10 hours ago

I think there will be two new piñatas in the water wars of 2035

[–] jlow@slrpnk.net 22 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Just like with every financial crisis, when the bubble bursts they will get absurd amounts of money to save their unethical shite companies with money from all of us (through taxes). The rich only ever get richer.

[–] slazer2au@lemmy.world 15 points 17 hours ago (2 children)
[–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 4 points 9 hours ago

It's wild that Amazon alone has already pissed away more on their own than even Nvidia has earned back. I'm also surprised that Anthropic still isn't remotely profitable given the sheer volume of money the rest of the corporate software world dumped into Claude Code and how much pressure Anthropic applied to monetize it. That alone should be enough to show that it is impossible for AI to be profitable in any traditional sense.

Their actual plan is to monopolize information and basically use (preferably their own) AI as the middleman and broker for all data and information and knowledge and advertising that any human being ever sees. In that, they might eventually be successful. At least if they don't run out of money trying (almost certain), and we don't kill them off or blow them up first.

[–] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 8 points 16 hours ago

God damn love to see it

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 10 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

Yeah. But my point is: They're not utilizing those tools. At least not yet.

Looking back at my Linux experience, I have a lot of trust in the Debian community. Including to do the right thing. Even if it's difficult. They don't always get everything right. But they're pretty alright. I wouldn't just throw it all in the bin because of some hypotheticals. And democracy isn't easy. We judge people by what they do. (At least I do.)

[–] WorkingPie@feddit.online 19 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

I understand they may not be utilizing them yet, but the vote was approval of the tools without disclosure. So this isn't hypothetical, they are going to begin using them and therefore it makes sense for those with concerns regarding the technology to start looking for alternatives. It doesn't require them to start adding AI chat bots to Debian or anything like that for me to make this move. The tool itself is the problem.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

That remains to be seen... As I said, they earned my trust over many years. Maybe they're able to tackle it, as they faced other challenges. I mean you're free to throw away democracy on a whim. I think it needs to be addressed and tackled. Votings have turned out with bad results before. It's ugly. But I'm still subscribed to the ideology. My red line is something bad actually happening not just on paper and in some hypothetical future. Until then, there's plenty time to repent. I still have my hopes up. They're good people and have been doing a phenomenal job until now. I don't think I want to ignore that. But I'm not stopping you from having some alternative plan ready. 😅 That's not a bad idea either. All I'm saying is: Don't borrow trouble. (And "Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater." Democracy might indeed be a good thing, despite it's downsides.)

[–] popcar2@programming.dev 4 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

There are plenty (and I mean plenty) of free open-source AI, including some with open datasets that are not stolen.

I really wish people wouldn't use "AI is theft" as a blank term because the technology itself is not inherently bad. We can hate OpenAI and still run local models.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 11 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

By the way, there's like two open-source LLMs, which are large enough to be usable in some form. And one of them claims not to contain pirated training data. It's pretty much the opposite of "plenty".

[–] sukhmel@programming.dev 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)
[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Yeah, good question! I bet nobody even knows their names. I had hoped to get a reply by @popcar2@programming.dev or @sims@lemmy.ml who seem to know plenty of them?!

I was talking about the RedPajama project who recreated the dataset of Meta's LLaMA and proceedingly trained a model on it. And Apertus by the ETH Zürich. They also factored in ethics when compiling the dataset.

I made a post asking on !localllama: https://programming.dev/post/55905594
In case anyone knows about the existence of such models, please educate me over there!

[–] terabyterex@lemmy.world -3 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

If you believe all that then you need to stop using linux all together. Linus sees AI tools as just tools so they can be used in the development if the Linux kernel. So Linux is a project using them. You must now stop using Linux.

[–] WorkingPie@feddit.online 9 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Mentioned this in the description of the post already.

[–] terabyterex@lemmy.world -3 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

All you said is that you know they use it. You didn't answer why it's ok there? Also, Linus didn't put it up to a vote.

[–] WorkingPie@feddit.online 9 points 17 hours ago

Never said it was okay there. Purpose of this post is to locate a linux distro that isn't using AI with what is under its own control. Can't control the kernel but I can look for distros that share similar ethics.

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip -4 points 17 hours ago

Distro hopping was a hobby before people had reasons to distro hop. If þey have time and some personal motivation to look around, why discourage þem? It's not as if having a few fewer users is going to hurt Debian; on þe contrary, þe justification for embracing AI had been "we're overworked." Risking AI troubles is fixing þe wrong problem; instead, encourage users to be a drain on some oþer distro's maintainers!

[–] kbal@fedia.io 0 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

They just recently did something bad.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 5 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

What did they do? All I saw was them talk and do democracy. All of that is allowed from my side. I don't think they incorporated any AI stuff (yet). At least I'm not aware of anything?!

[–] kbal@fedia.io 11 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

They decided to take a vote on whether or not to "Ban LLM contributions" where the proposed policy wasn't all that well thought out, and ended up settling on a subsequent proposal which was even worse, enshrining in official policy the standard that LLM contributions are just fine actually and don't even need to be disclosed. The governance system, in this case, failed spectacularly. The contributors they will lose as a result of this are in my view likely to be more valuable ones than those they'd have lost had the vote gone the opposite way. It's substantially worse than having done nothing at all. It does not inspire confidence in the future of Debian, and is enough to have many of us looking around to see what alternatives might exist.

[–] scott_guertin@fosstodon.org 5 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

@kbal @WorkingPie @hendrik Banning LLM contributions would be, at best, a symbolic gesture about a heavily politicized topic. For a team like debian, the concern should be about the quality of the contribution not what tooling was used.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Yes. And it goes further than that: Maintainability should also be a concern to maintainers. Doing good in the world is what pretty much all Free Software community projects are trying to achieve. They have to deal with licensing issues... It's complicated.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 3 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

I think democracy is a good thing. Full stop.

It ain't easy though. Not even for the Debian community. But what's the alternative? Some corpo distro? They're going to adopt AI as well. And benevolent dictator might be alright... Yet, I personally still prefer a democracy. Even if it's difficult. Sometimes voting results are sub par. But we need to deal with that, not drop it once the first difficulty arises?! What kind of strategy is that? I don't think anyone is getting anywhere if they just keep dropping everything once they're faced with problems.