Not only the bible. Many religious texts out there give you arbitrary rules that ensure otherworldy punishement if you dont somehow follow them all as closely as you can.

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 0 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Yeah, things like "feed the poor", "treat others with justice", "pay the workers what they are owed - and do it today, not two weeks from now", "women's rights are human rights", and crazy shit like that.

Or, depending on who you ask about it, alternatively "yOu NeEd To LeT tHiS mAn StIcK iT uP yOuR bUtT".

Not everything claimed to be in any particular text, religious or otherwise, is actually there. Sometimes people just lie.

[–] SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Specifically, 1 Timothy 2:

11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Let's see what christians are getting out of it.

That biblical blessing and that voice of nature and that God-given longing should be followed, I’m arguing, unless God himself makes it crystal clear that the self-denying path of Christ-exalting obedience is childlessness.

https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/are-christian-couples-required-to-have-kids

I think the deliberate choice not to have children is nearly always wrong.

https://www.challies.com/articles/is-it-okay-deliberately-not-to-have-children/

This is it in a nutshell:

The world tells us we deserve happiness. The Bible tells a different story.

In other words, "have children even if you and they are all miserable for it."

They even quote a bible verse that likens children to ammunition, weapons:

Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are children born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them.

https://www.crosswalk.com/family/parenting/is-it-a-sin-to-choose-not-to-have-children.html

Do not defend child abuse. Do not support death cults. Children who have no choice in the matter suffer and die for it.

[–] GoofSchmoofer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think ol' Tim was an incel

[–] SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today 1 points 1 day ago

Lol. I'm not sure how many biblical incels there are. Probably not as many as there are rapists.

While I agree with your sentiment, the book is named "Timothy" because it was written to Timothy, not by him. Traditionally, Paul is considered to be the author, but it's unlikely.

I could not find anything suggesting Paul or Timothy had wives. The "Life" section of Timothy's Wikipedia article consists of two paragraphs, one of which is all about how Paul personally circumcised him. Quite the bonding experience, I'm sure.

Male genital mutilation remains disturbingly common to this day. My parents chose it for my brothers and I when we were infants. It is one of the many reasons I will be relieved when my parents are dead.

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online -5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I mentioned already in my response to your other comment that husbands are ALSO called to submit themselves to their wives. Jesus did more for women's rights than anyone else in history, as far as I am aware. There are so very exceedingly many valid criticisms of the Bible, but quoting the New Testament in particular does not seem to me to be one of them. In the context of its era, it was radically revolutionary.

I hadn't heard that from Desiring God. I presume he clearly demonstrated his own opinion as separate and distinct from anything actually stated in the actual, literal Bible? Your quotes here seem to say thus.

So, off the cuff mind you, my guess is that it's old and that this advice, which if it had been given 50 years ago may well have been true(-ish), as in most couples indeed may be happier to have kids than not? Even if only for a retirement plan, while those who adamantly do not want them will not herd such advice regardless, so a simplistic mantra offered to the simple-minded with the aim of helping them arrive at a conclusion that they would have reached themselves eventually, given sufficient time and energy and efforts? Yeah I'm okay with that, in that context.

Today would be a different story I think... so it seems a matter of an elderly pastor giving out of date advice, not keeping up with the times, but again - CRUCIALLY - making sure to distinguish that it was merely his own opinion. It's okay to have personal opinions, even incorrect ones?

And from my very first comment in this thread I have in no way defended child abuse, saying in fact rather the opposite. ThAt'S whAt ThIs CaPiTaLiZaTiOn StYlE mEaNs?

[–] SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today 1 points 2 days ago

I mentioned already in my response to your other comment that husbands are ALSO called to submit themselves to their wives.

Liar. Quote the verse.

Jesus did more for women's rights than anyone else in history

No, cuntface, Jesus said women belong to his dad. What the fuck is wrong with you?

There are so very exceedingly many valid criticisms of the Bible, but quoting the New Testament in particular does not seem to me to be one of them.

Hey dipshit: the WHOLE THING is based on "submit to me or I'll punish you for eternity." Idiot. Did you forget to read the rest of the bible?

In the context of its era, it was radically revolutionary.

It was cancer then, and it is cancer now.

So, off the cuff mind you

Shut the fuck up until you've read it all.

It is cancer.

my guess is that it's old and that this advice, which if it had been given 50 years ago may well have been true(-ish)

Wrong. There is no god. There is no divine punishment or reward.

most couples indeed may be happier to have kids than not?

Cite an empirical study before making such claims, fuckface. And do not disregard the fact that many couples should not have children.

Even if only for a retirement plan

Excuse the fuck out of you? Children don't own their parents jack shit. Die alone, selfish moron.

so a simplistic mantra offered to the simple-minded with the aim of helping them arrive at a conclusion that they would have reached themselves eventually, given sufficient time and energy and efforts? Yeah I'm okay with that, in that context.

Honest minds can be changed with sufficient evidence.

Fuck yourself to death.

Today would be a different story I think... so it seems a matter of an elderly pastor giving out of date advice, not keeping up with the times, but again - CRUCIALLY - making sure to distinguish that it was merely his own opinion. It's okay to have personal opinions, even incorrect ones?

No. Not if those baseless opinions result in real harm to real people, which is what is happening now. Fuckface

And from my very first comment in this thread I have in no way defended child abuse

You literally did, and you still are.

Christianity is a death cult. All christians abuse their children because they love a fake god more than their real kids.

ThAt'S whAt ThIs CaPiTaLiZaTiOn StYlE mEaNs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7dWyYeOBkg&pp=0gcJCRMMAYcqIYzv

https://snoopsqueak.com/videos/fys

[–] SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Have you read the whole bible, or just a few verses from the gospels?

Yeah, things like "feed the poor"

...if they're the right race.

"treat others with justice"

Meaning "burn them for all time if they don't bow to me."

"pay the workers what they are owed - and do it today, not two weeks from now"

"Give up all your possessions and follow me." "All authority is christian authority, so always obey authority." Horrible stuff.

"women's rights are human rights"

But they evidently are not in the bible. Women are treated as property. "Wives, submit to your husbands." "Women should listen instead of speak."

Do you know how Abram conceived a child? He raped his wife's slave. The slave fled. God sent an angel to tell her to go back and have her rapist's baby.

Do you know how David was punished? His wives were raped. He was not.

crazy shit like that.

It is crazy shit, built on the utterly unproven claim that a god exists at all.

Or, depending on who you ask about it, alternatively "yOu NeEd To LeT tHiS mAn StIcK iT uP yOuR bUtT".

The subjectivity of interpretation is a huge problem with it. That's how we get loud and proud rape and genocide apologists, homophobes, etc.

Not everything claimed to be in any particular text, religious or otherwise, is actually there. Sometimes people just lie.

Right, like Jesus lied about being god. He got himself and others killed and we're still dealing with the fallout 2000 years later.

The bible is a terrible book that nobody should take seriously. Please find a more consistent source of morality and stop defending the abuser's handbook. Please never encourage people like my parents again.

https://snoopsqueak.com/videos/aint-no-hate

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online -5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

In the USA on January, where people "defending" the Constitution... or merely claiming that that was what they were doing?

But I see what you mean: pedophilic priests weren't the focus of your comment so much as what the actual text said.

Yes, Jewish law applied to citizens, although iirc foreigners could become such also - not chiefly a "race" so much as a culture, bound by laws. Also, it was relatively advanced for its era (many thousands of years ago) - e.g. avoid pork especially with blood aka Salmonella, and treat literal slaves better than many countries treat their employees today. Women even had rights - less than men but they were there, unlike so many others in the regions nearby. Also, why leave out the closely related verse "husbands, also submit yourselves to your wives..."

Anyway, it's a violent bloody history of conquest and genocidal practices, I'm not trying to say otherwise, just adding that "love thy neighbor" is kinda cool and if people would ACTUALLY try doing that, whether bc they read it in this book or otherwise, then the world would be a far better place than it is today.

Some of your arguments need polishing though - e.g. give up your possessions and follow me was an optional offer, which was declined. Too bad, bc greed is a soul killer, no matter what religion someone claims they believe - just one look into the eyes of Zuckerberg or Bezos or Musk should anyone who has a soul. Money is essential to live, but the LOVE of it is the exact opposite, and I stand with Jesus and whoever says so (the Buddha I believe may have uttered thoughts along similar lines... Zen).

And no, justice in the Old Testament did not mean that - that came later, and iirc wasn't so much called by justice. In the OT, it was rather an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, and unless I miss my guess, most passages talking about justice like that mean like administrative people, as in judges (and mayors and the like) should not accept bribes. Which... really? Surely you aren't arguing that they should! Remember the New Testament admonition of people who heap heavy burdens into others without lifting a finger to help? Even - many even say especially - Jesus called out bad religion whenever warranted.

The burn in hellfire forever thing was also Jesus in the New Testament. Like a computer program that malfunctions, you trash it and if needed, buy a new machine. So too people will be discarded (it says). Oh well. Why get worked up about it though - are you thinking that you are among them? 🤪 But criticize it properly, using what it actually says, if you want people to listen.

Hey, believe it or not, there's even a verse for that: test everything against what you know to be true. Almost like the Bible initiated the scientific revolution. Belief in magic was old, and eventually culture got better - but you are looking back with the wisdom of hindsight, and even then can't get your arguments to match, sorry I don't mean to be mean but it comes across as being true. Your anger is besides the point of logic.

Also... weren't YOU the one who brought up the Bible into this conversation, not me? Yes there's crazy shit in there, so maybe use that stuff rather than mismatching and negging and giving atheism a bad name by offering this level of argumention?

Learn from Jesus: forgive and let the past go, you'll be so much happier that way. Leave it behind if you want to, no need to allow it to cloud your vision any longer.

[–] SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Women even had rights - less than men but they were there

You're a sexist shitbag.

Get out of our world.

unlike so many others in the regions nearby.

Irrelevant. The lesser of two evils can still be fucking evil, and we fucking know better.

Also, why leave out the closely related verse "husbands, also submit yourselves to your wives..."

Because it doesn't say that, scum fuck.

Anyway, it's a violent bloody history of conquest and genocidal practices, I'm not trying to say otherwise, just adding that "love thy neighbor" is kinda cool and if people would ACTUALLY try doing that, whether bc they read it in this book or otherwise, then the world would be a far better place than it is today.

Jesus neither invented nor embodied the golden rule.

Can you read?

Money is essential to live, but the LOVE of it is the exact opposite, and I stand with Jesus and whoever says so (the Buddha I believe may have uttered thoughts along similar lines... Zen).

So you admit the point you tried to make about paying workers is completely null and void?

And no, justice in the Old Testament did not mean that - that came later, and iirc wasn't so much called by justice.

Because god is abusive.

In the OT, it was rather an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, and unless I miss my guess, most passages talking about justice like that mean like administrative people, as in judges (and mayors and the like) should not accept bribes. Which... really? Surely you aren't arguing that they should! Remember the New Testament admonition of people who heap heavy burdens into others without lifting a finger to help? Even - many even say especially - Jesus called out bad religion whenever warranted.

Because god is abusive. Jesus frowned on anyone who didn't submit to Jesus even when he was wrong. Stupid, deadly shit.

Fuck yourself to death.

The burn in hellfire forever thing was also Jesus in the New Testament. Like a computer program that malfunctions, you trash it and if needed, buy a new machine.

So god is not all powerful? Or he chose to make things shitty?

Dumbfuck.

So too people will be discarded (it says). Oh well. Why get worked up about it though - are you thinking that you are among them? 🤪 But criticize it properly, using what it actually says, if you want people to listen.

No, cuntbag, I care because real human beings on the same planet as me use this cancer to make their decisions.

Hey, believe it or not, there's even a verse for that: test everything against what you know to be true.

And it is true that there is no god, evidently.

Almost like the Bible initiated the scientific revolution.

Wrong. Stop stealing credit.

Belief in magic was old, and eventually culture got better

Evidently not, you still put your faith in a wizard.

but you are looking back with the wisdom of hindsight, and even then can't get your arguments to match

My argument is very simple: I believe there is no god because no one has shown me evidence or reason to believe there is one.

sorry I don't mean to be mean but it comes across as being true. Your anger is besides the point of logic.

I'm angry because your baseless bullshit is getting innocent people killed. Dumbfuck.

Also... weren't YOU the one who brought up the Bible into this conversation, not me?

No, idiot, it's in the original post.

Yes there's crazy shit in there, so maybe use that stuff rather than mismatching and negging and giving atheism a bad name by offering this level of argumention?

Atheism is correct until we have evidence for god's existence.

Do you have evidence, or just condescending dipshittery?

Learn from Jesus: forgive and let the past go, you'll be so much happier that way. Leave it behind if you want to, no need to allow it to cloud your vision any longer.

No, fuckface. Learn from reality. We can't undo the past. My parents abused me because they believe in god, and FUCK YOURSELF TO DEATH for encouraging them.

Murderer.

https://snoopsqueak.com/videos/fys

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The excuse your parents used was their religion, while the excuse you use when you abuse others is your anti-religion. The two share a lot more in common than they differ.

[–] SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today 1 points 1 day ago

The difference is evidence. They chose lies, they chose violence. I was violently forced to be like them, no choice.

Never falsely equate deadly bullshit with life-saving reality. The abrahamic faiths are death cults, you smug dumbass.

[–] SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today 2 points 2 days ago

Too bad, bc greed is a soul killer

Throw your phone in the trash and never bother us again, then.