From what I understand, a coalition between the Liberals and the NDP (and more parties if the libs have that poor of a performance), where the Liberals aren't really strong electorally speaking is probably how we would get PR federally (right?).

How do we do it provincially though? Ontario seems to be moving towards that direction, with opinion polls being in favor of PR, and the Liberals and the NDP being wiped out due to a lack of PR.

What about the other provinces? Eby's being a little bitch in BC about this. Same goes with the Alberta NDP. There is no strong third party with enough leverage in either of these provinces to ram this demand through using a coalition. Not so familiar with the politics of other provinces and territories, so no idea what the status there looks like.

What do you think we should do instead? Fairvote's "email a sternly worded letter to your MP/MLA" sounds woefully ineffective.

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[–] tangeli@piefed.social 2 points 3 days ago (2 children)

We desperately need proportional representation at the federal and provincial levels of government. What can we do to get it passed?

What percentage of the population agrees with your premise? If most disagree, who's wrong? You, or them? Start with this fundamental. Find the truth. Let strong evidence speak for itself.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

What percentage of the population agrees with your premise?

I'd say most people are ambivalent to the whole discussion.

Hell, we have a hard time getting half the population to even get off their ass and cast a ballot at all.

The people who care about alternative voting systems really care, but that's a small number of people. For everyone else it's not something that crosses their minds, and when prompted, don't have much of an opinion.

[–] GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

While I understand and even co-sign people's instinct to cling to the status quo without exceptional evidence that a change will benefit us, I also recognize that reflex can be detrimental to our well-being if what we have truly makes us weaker, and a less free and just nation. The fact is there have been many examples of PR, some successful, others less so, and there are models that are clearly superior in making sure everyone's perspective is heard and given fair consideration. Unfortunately that's difficult to explain to people. Truthfully very few Canadians have a strong grasp of how our electoral systems work now, let alone the case for why it should be changed. You would not believe the number of misconceptions people have about the system we currently use and how often people confuse it for other systems they've heard about in other countries. I blame our media environment for that more than our education system, but that's a tangent.

For this reason, it is necessary to continue to keep trying to explain, persuade, and re-engage people on this issue. The fact is people have not been making fully informed decisions, so trying again to explain it, and then asking them again is simply part of the process. Democracy only works when we're all well informed. That's why Plato hated democracy, because he considered the problem of getting everyone fully informed and on the same page too daunting in his opinion.

It's our obligation as citizens to work together for a better nation. Some truths are found in the wisdom of the crowd, but many are objective, regardless of whether people believe in it. Many people hated the idea of public healthcare... until they experienced it, and changed their minds. Now you will pry it from our cold dead hands. Our implementation could definitely be better, but even deeply flawed it's better than anything south of the border and the overwhelming majority will stand by that. Lived experience is a pretty good argument, no?

[–] tangeli@piefed.social 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I completely agree that democracy only works when most people are well informed. That's the crux of so many of our problems in society and politics. Perhaps the biggest weakness of democracy and one of societies most fundamental problems.

My personal preference is for proportional representation but it won't overcome a misinformed public or pervasive corruption.

I agree that there is an objective truth to many matters, sometimes at odds with popular opinion, but even if proportional representation is truly and significantly superior to the status quo, if it is introduced against the opinion of the majority, is that democracy?

So, as you say, it is necessary to keep bringing it up. Keep explaining. There are some good examples from outside Canada. To get some local hands-on experience, it might be easier to start with more local government.

Democracy must be rooted in a well informed public, so every truly democratic political movement and change must begin there. It's not easy and there are no shortcuts.

[–] GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 days ago

To get some local hands-on experience, it might be easier to start with more local government.

That's not how government works in Canada. Provinces set the rules for the municipal level. Everything. Starts. With provinces.