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Fuck this is a difficult one.
Tipping culture is a throwback to slavery times and is very typical of the predatory nature that exists within employment in the US. The position that customers need to pay a tip because the server needs a liveable wage that isn’t covered by employers and built into law is essentially being held hostage due to an unfair system.
That said, waitstaff depend on this for a liveable wage and by not paying the tip, you’re denying that worker fair income. It’s not their fault directly, it’s the system they are under.
Looking from the outside, it comes back to the same thing; the reluctance of Americans to engage in building a decent society by collectively voting to build that, rather than voting or even not voting at all to take care of themselves. Again, it’s another case of ‘you get out what you put in’. A 60% voter turnout reflects the quality of what’s been elected and makes it easy for bad actors to get what they want, especially when their base does turn out.
To get those things, they need to at least vote and vote for people who will give them the things they want like legislated, decent wages. Sometimes it also means some hardship or compromise. Here, that means wait staff would be giving up the potential of big tips for the benefit of decent wages and perhaps healthcare.
Personally? Of course I’d tip them; I’m in Rome so I’d do as the Romans do and I’m aware that's their income. I’d also feel like I was held hostage by a shithouse, predatory system brought about by Americans lack of care for their own people though.
You'd own and rape slaves too?
No? So there is a Rubikon that you don't cross after all?
If I was a tourist in Rome, and the only currency was raping a slave then i wouldn't visit rome. But if I was visiting Rome and knew that the people serving me food needed to be paid directly because they would otherwise starve and become destitute then i would pay the Roman workers directly as is the custom of Rome.
If they would starve when we don't give them handouts, they should riot and change the system. Not blame tourists.
paying their exploiters while telling the exploited how to solve their problems. i bet you think rapists are justified when they rape people in revealing clothes
Easy as hell to say when you don't say to do it yourself. Revolution is bloody and things more often than not end up worse after. Especially with how heavily armed US police forces are
Only the naive would think that a mass riot would somehow make things better.
Yeah and it's much closer to "I'll pay a little more to make sure that person can afford to eat today" than, "owning and raping slaves".
The point of that argument is to give an example on why the other argument does not make sense.
"When in Rome, do as the Romans" is bullshit. No matter the context.
Well, no, don't go crazy here. Changing some of the behaviour is okay. For example, when I visit foreign countries I try to greet people in their native tongue. When in Brasil during the Carnival I dance on the streets, in Germany in October observe Oktoberfest, when in Zurich on weekend snort cocaine, you know - harmless stuff ;-)
As a German I could write a lot more about this, but I'll keep it short:
Please don't!
So anyone who is underpaid at work should ask customers to pay extra instead of taking it up with their boss? Should grocery store staff start spitting in people's food if customers dont hand over 20% more money at the checkout?
I'm all for supporting workers and i begrudgingly tip in our broken system most of the time... but i cant stand the entitlement of service staff who get pissed about bad tippers... take it up with your boss...
This is just the rich business owners (who are underpaying their staff) dividing the working class by framing this as the fault of the customer (typically also working class people...)
So now waitstaff are complaining about bad tippers and fighting other workers rather than focusing on the real problem.
It's been pointed out to me a few times recently that a lot of hospitality staff don't actually want the system to change as they usually don't declare their full income from the tips to the taxman.
If they unionise and change things, their whole income becomes taxable, and they feel that they lose.
This seriously undermines the sympathy I have for the staff as a group. The tools for change are right there, but there are enough bootlickers and foolish individualists to poison any attempt at change short of a general strike. (I'm under no illusions as to the inevitable violent government response to such a thing either.)
Ultimately it comes down to; "Either change your system with group action, like everywhere else did, or keep whining about getting stiffed, your choice."
While this is true amongst some, it's again that minority that finds the really nice places to work.
I've done waiter at a tex mex place, my current coworker the same, we talk about the bullshit one has to jump through to be able to pay rent. Working multiple jobs to make ends meet for a job that cuts your hours or has you work a double without any forwarning.
And when it comes to the group action, unfortunately wait staff at the shittiest of places still exist because someone needs money to survive. And if you can get out of the hellhole to a real job, you do it the first chance you can. Doesn't really give enough time to create group action.
I don't have an answer for it, we should get rid of tipping. I don't eat out really at all, that's my fix. But I'm far far out of the restaurant business now and if I'm back in it then my life has gone absolutely horribly wrong.
Servers in America can work 20-30 hours a week and pretty easily make 40-50 dollars an hour. Very few restaurants can afford to pay their staff that much. These servers aren’t making 5 dollars an hour like everyone thinks. I personally think the most messed up thing about the restaurant industry is the cooks make the least amount of money out of everyone. Sysco reps, delivery drivers, servers, bartenders, owners, they all profit off of the kitchen.
Most other countries have figured out how to make it work.
What country’s are paying their servers 45 dollars an hour?
So you agree it’s dumb s fuck that only the last chain, those who carry the food to the table should be tipped