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Yes and so are power generators, mines, industrial meat farms and so on. Somehow though we understand we like food and electricity. As for the race to strong AI (AGI / ASI) it is a winner takes all game. The first to achieve it will leave whoever comes in second place in the dust. It's not like nuclear weapons where they reasonably cap out as a tactical benefit or even a deterrent.
Those buildings produce a product and hire members of the community. Meanwhile I keep hearing AGI is the future with absolutely no proof. Sounds like a pipe dream.
So we're okay with massive pollution as long as it employs people and tastes good?
The water use from global Beef production is on the order of 10 million times more than global datacenters, and yet people screaming bloody murder about the water usage for the data centers.
The noise from traffic down the road you live on is far worse for you than any sort of datacenter, and yet we're okay with that. Infrasound weapons? That's the same bullshit people said about Wind Turbines and there's no scientific proof that any of that is valid at all.
Let's be realistic about why people hate data centers, those are just excuses, people are afraid they're going to get fired/laid off if it gets better established. That's a realistic worry, and totally valid. Preventing a few data centers won't stop that though.
We've nearly cracked the code to duplicate intelligence at least in the form of neural nets. Now it's a process of refining it. Also one of the last major hurdles is continuous learning. They're fully in on transformers essentially and training ever bigger ones and then condensing it.
I think most people aren't fully aware of what's happened in just ten years. What most thought wouldn't be achieved until maybe 2050 to 2100 has been done and is so normal now it doesn't even feel like sci-fi. An artificial mind just solved an 80 year old mathematics conjecture a few days ago.
I'm not sure I can even get across to you what's happening. Maybe the best analogy is its like an alien embryo has landed and it's growing and it has the potential to be far more intelligent than any human and whichever country controls (if that's possible) the alien baby they will perpetually win at economics, war, and so on. They will have the final say on what happens globally.
Chimpanzees do not control the jungle because humans exist and humans are more intelligent. No matter what plan the chimps make the more intelligent human mind will be able to out plan them in the end.
So yeah it's taking more than a few days to create an artificial super intelligence, but it is happening and whoever gets there first wins in perpetuity assuming they can maintain control.
Garbage in garbage out.
An artificial mind just solved the planar unit distance problem, an artificial mind has essentially cracked protein folding, we can now simulate 100 years of climate models 25 times faster than before, I mean the list goes on and on. It's definitely not garbage. This is a paradigm shift in the same sense computers or the internet were but far far greater.
It could be as good and better than what you claim and I'd still have more than enough reason to stand against it.
I understand that. The problem is what happens when another nation who doesn't like you has the AI or their AI goes rogue. The problem with trying to outthink a thinking thing that can outthink you is you are in essence a thinking thing and you can't outthink it. I understand data centers are problematic to say the least, what's far more problematic is a rogue artificial super intelligence and no way to counter it.
Get help.
I think you aren't aware of what's happening. I'll give an analogy. You have GPS in your phone, that doesn't make it an intercontinental ballistic missile. The AI I think you're interfacing with is watered down and for the masses like technology is in most regards. What is already possible and what is being built is just a touch stronger than the chatGPT you get to use.
I don't think you're listening. Assuming all of that is true doesn't make me want to stop fighting it with every breath. In fact its the opposite. The fact that this is just the pipedream of people who want to steal all your money just makes it sad.
It's unfortunately not that and there is a wider context here. I personally wish it was all flimflam or that the development naturally hits a roadblock. The problem is there's no evidence currently to suggest either of those statements are true of the current approach towards AI. I'm saying this as a computational mathematics academic. I would much prefer for us all that you were right. So far though I only have reason to have extreme worries about what is happening and what is being built. There really should be a global armistice on AI development, but there won't be.
I dont think Lemmy is for you my friend, get help
I have noticed a particular vibe here. I'm really into the mission statement of the fediverse and there's not many other reddit duplicates on the fediverse. I get that there's some sort of consensus here and that people generally dislike views aka will downvote people to hell the mob disagrees with. I do believe though there's space here for differing opinions and amicable debate. It would be sad if it became just another lifeless echo chamber of a bunch of people who all agree with one another about everything.
For the most part I've appreciated our discourse. Obviously we disagree and that's alright, in fact it's refreshing. I hope you feel the same.
Came back to this just to say you're as wrong about AI as you are about nuclear weapons.
My statement about nukes is that they have diminishing returns in a tactical use and as a deterrent. That's why the cold war never became hot, no one wants to win only to lose. Also why Russia and the US have diminished their supply.
As for AI I honestly hope for all our sakes I am wrong but as someone who's been very close to this since 2016 I have serious doubts. We have in essence already found a structure which encodes intelligence. The space obviously isn't that well explored in only 10 years but the cat is essentially out of the bag. Maybe this approach will flatline but given the development in just this timeframe I wouldn't make that bet.
We have mayors and folks courting GEO group to run private prison and detention camps in their town...
They know it's depressing and immoral but they rationalize it to themselves because they know it brings lots of high paying jobs with low educational requirements and activity to their region.
Data centers on the other hand are only take and no give. There aren't many local staff needed, it doesn't require that much cleaning and security that don't pay that well, the one or two high paying jobs are specialized and shipped from another state probably, the construction companies are likely to be mostly from outside the county, and the center will be a draw on local resources to serve AI workloads everywhere else in the world.
And when another nation achieves AGI / ASI first we will know we probably shouldn't have let the opportunity slip by if only to have the capacity to defend ourselves in the scenario their AI goes rogue. The problem with trying to defend yourself against a thinking thing that can outthink you is that you are in essence a thinking thing trying to outthink it except it can outthink you.
AI can be a useful tool no doubt and has cool and harmful applications. But let's not be delusional about it and anthropomorphize AI. It doesn't think. It doesn't go rogue. It's a non-deterministic phrase guessing algorithm. I've tried chatbots, thing generators, had a friend try coding tools, ran my own models, and I find parts of it impressive and useful in some respects, but at this moment, I don't really buy the narrative that it's going to change everything or fix the limitations I see with transformers-based AI models. The best description of it I heard was a lossy compression algorithm, it can take a lot of knowledge and compress it but there are artifacts, hallucinations and weird stuff sometimes coming out the other end.
I'm not against AI itself per se, but I'm very much against the bubble hype-cycle, techbros being locked into a strange belief that pumping money into this thing forever is somehow going to go take over the world on its own volition. On the contrary, my understanding is corporate greed and capitalism is already accomplishing that - firing the workers, concentrating wealth and controlling the world - no matter how much AI is cited as the reason for any of that.
That would be nice if you were correct. I'll give an example, neurons don't think, even large bundles of neurons don't think, they just respond to stimulus in relationship to their training. They are non-deterministicly guessing based on past experiences.
Now as for AI not having novel or unplanned behavior, I'm guessing you've never tried training one or interacting with one long enough.
I mean this honestly. Get help. You sound deranged.
Humans are the dominant lifeform on earth because humans are the most intelligent. What happens if that is no longer the circumstance? There are already glimpses of AI providing mathematical proofs that are currently unverifiable, and not because they are necessarily incorrect, but because it is beyond us currently.
To believe all of this and then want the United States government to get this tech is unreal.
The US or China, pick your poison. At least as of now I can go outside or online and say whatever I want in the US so long as it isn't slander, liable, or a threat of violence. I'm not sure I can do the same in Bejing.
The president has labeled me a terrorist 3 times over in the last month.
In China would you still be alive?
You have truly drank the koolaid on the anti Chinese propaganda.
I would be arrested there for things that are my right elsewhere.
Like what?
Like in the US I can put up a booth and talk about tienimen square or for that matter anything the US or any other country has done that was unjust. I can criticize the president and the government openly. I can lawfully use a VPN or Tor.
I have been labeled a terrorist by the Americans government for doing 1 of the 2 things your brought up, and they're working on making the other irrelevant. The American government and the Chinese government have more in common than you have with the American government. So no it wouldn't be better for the US to make hard AI, but they're not going to so I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about wasting 20% of our economy on an A* girlfriend for Elon Musk. I'm worried about them robbing retirement funds and our tax dollars for this.
Sounds like an easy lawsuit then so long as you didn't commit slander, liable, or call for violence you'll be very well covered by the constitution and I hope you enjoy the tax money you'll receive.
Unfortunately what is happening with AI development is serious and is an existential threat to humanity and not because of the data centers or environmental impact, although I do seriously wish you were right. As someone who is working in the field and is an academic it's not looking good for us, my hope is that it's more compassionate than us.
AI can't deal with things that happen to the physical machines. It cannot protect itself from somebody hitting power buttons on the servers, or just cutting the power altogether, or fire, or other "acts of god" so to speak.
What's your timeframe? Currently yes, will that forever continue to be the case particularly if it becomes as or more intelligent than us? I have doubts. This is a well known problem