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I don't see why you would bother paying Microsoft for an OS that has shitty battery life and hurts performance with unnecessary bullshit software and "features" crammed in.
this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2025
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Windows device
Is that what computers are being called now? A Windows device?
let you
🙄
That part came from talking about Valve opening SteamOS up to more than just the Steam Deck or other OEM partner devices.
Valve will "let you" download an image and slap it on a desktop, laptop, smart toaster, or any other x86 based computer.
let you
🙄
Valve is making their distribution more readily available to every device, rather than locking into their ecosystem
That sound any better Mr. Contrarian? They're doing a good thing, don't let the language get in the way
Any company that doesn't make everything free is terrible obviously. Never mind the fact that a major company is making an effort to not just use, but improve and support Linux for consumers in a huge way.
Screw them for not doing more for FOSS software I guess.
That sound any better
Not really.
don't let the language get in the way
Your suggestion is to avoid criticising poor reportage? Why?
You're not giving criticism by rolling your eyes at the language. You're bitching about it. Giving criticism would require that you also explain why it's wrong and how to do better.
You're not giving criticism by rolling your eyes at the language. You're bitching about it.
Your suggestion is to avoid bitching about poor reportage? Why?
Because bitching doesn't accomplish anything. Giving criticism does.
Because bitching doesn't accomplish anything
Why does the fact that it doesn't accomplish anything mean one shouldn't do it?
Bro this is really how you want to behave? Like this is the type of person you want to be? This is the way you think you should interact with the world? Why?
Who cares...
Can’t say I’m excited about any hp product either, but the fact these big companies are openly preferring Linux to windows is a sign of the huge progress Linux has made and that’s super exciting imo
At the very least, the big laptop manufacturers making Linux handhelds means just from a cost cutting and resource perspective, there's a good chance laptop and desktop hardware support improves even further just because they reuse parts across devices.
Hell, NVIDIA is probably watching this and wishing they'd supported Linux better in the past because now they have some catching up to do.
there’s a good chance laptop and desktop hardware support improves even further just because they reuse parts across devices.
100% agree.
This is how Linux has caught-up-ish with respect to hardware in the first place. The BSOD from all the crappy drivers in Windows forced MSFT to create WHQL. Then MSFT charged for certification. Then OEMs started licensing IP that already had the certification instead of writing their own drivers for less well know IP. Someone writes a Linux driver for a certain IP and now a ton of systems are further supported.
These companies are definitely going to reuse IP across all their devices. Companies selling IP will want to sell their IP in as many markets as possible. They are going to write the Linux driver and say, "put this in your handheld."
They are going to write the Linux driver and say, "put this in your handheld."
That would be terrible. They shouldn't be giving their customers a driver, they should be sending their driver to mainline and telling their customers "Use any version of Linux after 6.<whenever their driver was committed>".
I should clarify. I'm speaking from the perspective of the IP owner who writes the driver and manufacturer who puts together all the components. And I'm sure the drivers would get mainlined. That's what Intel does now. They inbox their Windows driver with MSFT and mainline their Linux driver with the Kernel.
I'm speaking from the perspective of the IP owner who writes the driver and manufacturer who puts together all the components.
As am I.
And I'm sure the drivers would get mainlined.
That's not the norm.
Intel
Intel is huge and employs shit loads of Linux developers. Most vendors, who will be much smaller, don't. For example, Realtek, who stick a crappily written driver in a tarball on their download page and call it a day. Or any of the hundreds of silicon vendors (such as NXP, Nvidia, Rockchip, Allwinner, Realtek again, Qualcomm, etc., etc.) with "BSP"s who give their customers a 500GB package containing, among lots of proprietary userland shit, some butchered horror show based on Linux 3.3 with no git history.
I can't imagine why you would expect drivers to be mainlined by a vendor.
I can’t imagine why you would expect drivers to be mainlined by a vendor.
Because I was a Windows kernel developer for Intel. It was standard practice for us to give our reference drivers to the OEMs to deploy with their devices, while we worked with Microsoft to inbox the reference drivers. This was part of the value of the Intel IP.
That’s not the norm.
It is the Norm for PCs. And we are talking about, "Laptop manufacturers making handhelds, leading to cost cutting from a resource perspective." We aren't talking about ARM vendors making 1 off devices.
I was a Windows kernel developer
LOL your experience in Windows driver land is in no way transferrable to Linux driver land.
It is the Norm for PCs
You mean for PCs running Windows. Which is not what we're talking about.
LOL your experience in Windows driver land is in no way transferrable to Linux driver land.
My experience at Intel with drivers is directly transferable. Intel sells the whole product. That's why an OEM would choose Intel IP. It's a core part of the sales strategy at Intel, not Just PC, Servers too (even Linux servers). Especially to the smaller OEMs who don't have huge engineering teams. Name a server technology or Server component that didn't get mainlined or inbox'd of Intel's? Again, core to the sales strategy.
You mean for PCs running Windows.
Yes.
Which is not what we’re talking about.
Yes we are, "At the very least, the big laptop manufacturers". Lenovo, Asus, and MSI are PC OEMs that make Windows PCs. Laptops, Desktop, Workstations, and now Handheld PCs. Right now PC is dominated by Windows. If the SteamOS version of the Lenovo handhelds are a clear winner, other Windows PC OEMs will follow. They, the big laptop manufacturers, will bring their expectations with them. Just as AMD mainlined into Linux the drivers they did for their components in the Steam Deck, Intel will too. And that brings us back to, "the big laptop manufacturers making Linux handhelds means just from a cost cutting and resource perspective, there’s a good chance laptop and desktop hardware support improves even further just because they reuse parts across devices." If, the big laptop manufacturers, want the SteamOS name and branding, they will have to mainline and that means selecting IP that has or will have mainline drivers. Valve will not want to go the Google route and maintain a separate Linux Kernel.
Windows PC manufacturers, not 1 off ARM vendors.
My experience at Intel with drivers is directly transferable.
LOL
Intel
The industry is more than just Intel and Intel are an outlier with respect to Linux kernel development.
they will have to mainline
They will not.
Valve will not want to go the Google route and maintain a separate Linux Kernel.
They already do:
https://gitlab.com/evlaV/linux-integration
https://gitlab.com/evlaV/linux-integration/activity
No offence mate but you're talking bollocks. You clearly don't know anything about Linux development.
LOL
Nice, you got nothing.
The industry is more than just Intel and Intel are an outlier with respect to Linux kernel development.
Intel is not an outlier with respect to PCs. Which we are talking about. Specifically, "the big laptop manufacturers", who are PC manufacturers. These are the manufacturers who are making the overwhelming majority of these Handhelds. Again, not some 1 off ARM vendor.
They already do: https://gitlab.com/evlaV/linux-integration https://gitlab.com/evlaV/linux-integration/activity
Again, you got nothing. All you have left is disingenuous links. Valve works from a fork, like everybody else. You know good and well, Google is doing something very different with their Android Kernel. https://web.git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/log/?qt=grep&q=Valve Valve, and all their contractors work to mainline their additions/changes to Valves fork. I can build a recent Linux kernel from the mainline and use it to boot my Steam Deck.
I'm shocked that this is news for you but, it's not just Intel who works off their own forks of the different Windows kernels. We get our drivers certified with WHQL and then hand them off to the OEMs who use our IP for release with their devices. In parallel work is done with Microsoft engineers to inbox the drivers. Valve is doing nothing different. Valve does the exact same thing with their fork of Linux. There is no reason to expect anything different out of Valve, Intel, or any other company or individual.
No offence mate but you’re talking bollocks. You clearly don’t know anything about Linux development.
Scuttle the argument how you like. You have nothing so it's to be expected. We are clearly talking about OP's claim, which is for the PC industry. Not Linux development. "the big laptop manufacturers", remember? You can go around and talk about all the "1 off ARM vendors" out there and how poor their practices are and how little they offer; knock yourself out. OP specifically said, "the big laptop manufacturers". I outline why he is correct in his claim from my direct industry experience. These laptop manufacturers are going to expect the same white glove treatment working with SteamOS as they do for Windows. The exact same treatment AMD did for Valve.
Sounds like you have zero experience with the PC industry and zero experience with even one of "the big laptop manufacturers".
you got nothing
LOL
We are clearly talking about OP’s claim, which is for the PC industry. Not Linux development.
No. I responded to your statement that 'They are going to write the Linux driver and say, “put this in your handheld.”' So we're talking only about Linux development.
LOL
Still nothing.
No. I responded to your statement that ‘They are going to write the Linux driver and say, “put this in your handheld.”’ So we’re talking only about Linux development.
Because the driver is for Linux? What a stretch. “the big laptop manufacturers” aren't going to suddenly drop their expectations just because of "Linux Development". How laughable. You have nothing. If you really believe that, you better send AMD an email, let them know how Linux development "actually" works. AMD is doing too much and needs to stop helping Valve, Asus, and Lenovo. Clearly the PC(Windows) heavy weights are setting the bar too high for all these "1 off ARM" device vendors.
“the big laptop manufacturers” aren't going to suddenly drop their expectations just because of "Linux Development"
I haven't claimed they would.
Like others said, as shitty as HP is (Believe me I hate them, I literally made a new company IT purchasing policy banning HP branded products the minute I had the power to do so) if Linux catches on with the big players it will only push better drivers and hardware support across their whole portfolio
A lot of people? You don't have to, but it's kinda weird to go and announce it to everyone.
And that's kids how you instigate a riot. 🤣
On the other hand, it seems I missed the target audience.
Joke aside, you made some good points and I agree with them. Thanks for the perspective. 😉
What a bunch of downvoting geniuses - drown yourself in HP quality. 🤭
No one gives a shit about the fact that HP is making another useless piece of hardware, but it's more about the fact that a major OEM is considering a linux alternative rather than slapping windows on a mobile device and shipping it like everyone else is.
The more OEMs that work with Valve on utiliing SteamOS means more pull that Valve has over Microsoft to make compatibility with games better, and even game developers themselves whom some ignore Steam Deck users entirely by ensuring their game will not work on it.
This is a win for the linux community as a whole to have the backing of an OEM, even if it's a shitty company like HP it's still a good sign and will hopefully mean other OEMs follow suit.