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How to respond to the Europe Re-arm ideas (lemmy.ml)

submitted 2 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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The EU announced its 800 billion euro plan to re-arm the EU with Trump being an unpredictable partner and Putin in the east (read more here if you want to know more).

I would like to get your opinions on this from an anarchistic viewpoint because I struggle to give one. As an anarchist I don't like the idea of a central army (let alone an EU one). Also, to get this 800 billion, countries and the EU have to borrow more money in a world that is already effectively running on debt without a proper way out.

On the other hand, I also understand people I speak to their opinions. Both Trump and Putin are unpredictable so I also understand that people want to feel safer by investing in the army. They also find it a waste of money but if we neglect the army, we might one day face the consequence of that.

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[+] [email protected] 17 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Fair point that more wapons dont solve the problem. Didnt think of that. But an easy counter argument will be that as long as others keep investing in weapons, we also need.

It is interesting to think about how to prevent neo imperialism forces taking your country. In the Netherlands even the middle-left parties agree to strengthen the EU. They all somehow want to show their voters they fight for their safety.

I must say that especially the EU and their decisions feel really far away and out of reach. They really don't see (or don't want to) see the long term consequences of their actions. A single country can't make the difference in the EU.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

This sounds a bit like you are falling for the popular game of EU-washing that many local politicians like to play, i.e. push for something at EU level and later claim there is nothing they could have done against it because it was decided by those up there in the EU.

In general the EU is far, far from being the "United states of Europe" and most of the controversial decisions are actually taken by national leaders circumventing the EU and its institutions like the EU parliament. The EU commission is largely just a bureaucratic organ to EU-wash the general neoliberal consensus of local politicians.

And from an anarchist perspective, it is IMHO preferable to have some far away aloof bureaucrats occupying themselves with some non-sense of little relevance and which you can largely ignore, than a local autocratic government that is breathing down your neck.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

But a local autocratic government feels more reachable to change. The EU actually costs you a lot of money - and true, we also earn money by trade and other collaborations so it is not all negative - but after we vote, it feels like things just continue as normal. They interfere in areas where they should make policy for and now they decide that we as EU should spend 800 billion on defense.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Afaik only 150b of that is actual new, the rest is just relabled national funding already previously committed. The EU likes to pretend they are doing something big, when in reality its the individual states doing it mostly.

As for not being able to change anything at EU level... that is of course by design so that the national governments can retain control. Very little is actually decided on EU level, most of it is backdoor deals of changing groups of national governments.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

I wanted to know the answer so I looked it up. The 650bn is paid by increasing the country defense spending. Each country is able to loan more only for the purpose of defense spending. But that 650bn has to come from somewhere so I assume that would mean cutting the cost else were (e.g. of social service). More info: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_25_790

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I don't think an EU army is necessarily a bad thing. By itself it isn't worse than a national army (low bar, I know), but disagreements between nations will make it hard to use for foreign intervention purposes and deep integration will make it hard for parts of it to be used against other parts of it.

And once you think about an EU army it becomes quite clear that cost savings possible by cooperating that way are much better that burning lots of borrowed money on multiple national white elephants like currently often the case.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

Good point. One of the actually valid reasons for the EU to exist, cooperate. Not like the current state where the is basically an unite states of Europe but rather bringing together the countries to work together but still respecting their sovereignty.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

They're all fascist garbage. USA and Russia are obviously trash empires. People somehow think Europe is better but it's still a white supremacist empire based on colonialism, exploitation, etc.

The fact that all of these terrible groups are wasting endless resources on murdering people should not be supported or celebrated. While I do think that it would be better for Europe to defend itself rather than be dominated by USA, Russia, etal, it's still a huge loss for humanity. The perpetrator is still the state, capitalism, imperialism, etc. - a system cooperatively maintained by every state and the violent global system of statehood. The same people and classes will profit regardless of their state's nationalist branding. That's the actual enemy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

For sure. Arm manufacturers are already lining up to fill their capitalistic pockets. In the meantime, their rare metals are extracted under bizarre conditions in former colonies or China.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

Democratise the armies, make them voluntary.

If somehow people in Europe became anarchists and got a backbone overnight, this rearmament would be necessary as well, with Russia and the USA on the loom. It would come from different political scales, but economically Europe needs an answer either way. The Cold War divide was not good for European autonomy and its perversion will neither.