Capitalism is the only system that lets you chase your dreams, if those dreams are stomping on the dreams of others through a position of privilege.
this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2024
22 points (95.8% liked)
Lefty Memes
5327 readers
2 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
0.5 [Provisional Rule] Use alt text or image descriptions to allow greater accessibility
We require alternative text (from now referred to as "alt text") to be added to all posts/comments containing media, such as images, animated GIFs, videos, audio files, and custom emojis.
EDIT: For files you share in the comments, a simple summary should be enough if they’re too complex.
We are committed to social equity and to reducing barriers of entry, including (digital) communication and culture. It takes each of us only a few moments to make a whole world of content (more) accessible to a bunch of folks.
When alt text is absent, a reminder will be issued. If you don't add the missing alt text within 48 hours, the post will be removed. No hard feelings.
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Sometimes I think about how much art was never created because of capitalism. It either never got funded, or a potential artist never got the chance to make it, because just to scrape by, they had to spend too much time toiling to make some business owners money. It's depressing.
And, just to cut off one potential counterargument: I don't give half of a shit how "good" that art would be. I'm confident there are spectacular works of art that never came to be, but even putting it aside, it's all subjective. Some folks would have loved it, and the artists would have found value in making it. That's more than enough, and a hell of a lot more meaningful than breaking your back working for a living so that other people can own stuff for a living.
Must be so awesome for those people living in non-capitalist countries that are able to do all those.
Remind me what countries those are please?
Remind me which countries failed due to socialism and not the full force of the western military complex whether by coup or invasion?
LMAO it was never real socialism
So you can't answer the question, got it.
What question? Are you talking to someone else?
Do you think Socialist countries don't have colleges? Lmao
I do think that doesn't answer my question.
I think it does. Do you think that art and humanities aren't appreciated under Socialism?
No it doesn't. I asked what non-capitalist countries allow you to chase the OP's dreams and you're just asking me a bunch of questions about my opinion of the existence of colleges, and art appreciation.
But OK let's suppose I have to answer your questions before I can get an answer to mine. Same answer for both: actually it's not something I've ever thought about. But I could find out fairly easily, the first anyway, given a list of socialist countries I could do a quick web search to find out if they have colleges. They probably do, but I couldn't name any at the moment. I think it would be tricky to find out whether or not A&H are appreciated under socialism; I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be but I couldn't point to anything that gives an indication one way or another.
Your answer now please: a list of countries where I could, if I lived and so desired, chase those dreams without the limitations of capitalism.
Pretty much all of them to different degrees. What's your point?
I don't think I'm trying to make any point. I'm just trying to understand where this stuff successfully plays out.
If you don't want to give a full list that's fine. What would be your top three? Or any three if you prefer.
You are free to chase those dreams. You are free to also struggle to find employment like the rest of us. Why hamper yourself? Do things that aren't profitable but you enjoy as hobbies Stop trying to find fulfillment at work.
Art is hugely profitable.
The arts are a significant contributor to the UK economy. Here's a quick breakdown of their impact:
- Economic output: The creative industries, which include the arts, are estimated to generate £126 billion in gross value added (GVA) to the UK economy. This represents around 5.6% of the total economy.
- Employment: The creative industries employ around 2.4 million people in the UK, accounting for 7% of all filled jobs. This sector has also seen a faster recovery in employment after the pandemic compared to the rest of the economy.
So your argument is... Yay capitalism?
The difference is you can still get those degrees if you want to. In communism, you cant.
The difference is you can still get those degrees if you want to.
If you come from a family of means you can, and no one will bat an eye.
If you get those degrees on student loans because it's your passion, you wind up in massive debt and poverty, usually with capitalism defenders (and the owner's for profit media) running to point and yell that you deserve it for not picking a passion that will maximize your utility at providing capital value to the owners.
Self-actualization for nepo babies all day. Preparation to be one of those nepo baby's batteries for the rest.
Do you know that political systems are a spectrum and hard socialism or communism are not eh only alternatives to rampant capitalism? Have you heard of Scandinavian countries like Sweden or Norway? If not, I strongly recommend reading about their political systems.
This is true! Socialism is a spectrum of different political expressions of the idea of socially held wealth. The term was coined by Marx to a wider already existant school of thought regarding how basic human needs should be handled through copious economic planning. The slogan we hear about workers and means of production isn't quite accurate as it is kind of a short quippy way to summerize passages that uses terms like "use-value".
There were other promenant thinkers who served as and creditied as predecessors on that school of thought. We tend to use the term "proto socialists" to that group because many of them predeceased the term but Socialism is an umbrella term. If you believe on any form distribution of resources required to meet basic needs then you fall under the umbrella.
A lot of the Socialist movers and shakers of the past saw variable amounts and expressions of success in integration of Socialist principles inside democratic systems.
Communism has somewhat less shades of grey and while technically under the umbrella term socialism in some ways it is unique. It refers in practice of the supposed handover of power to a system that is supposed to have a diminishing need for a state while also prohibiting privately held property. It sometimes aims for a currency free situation. As such it is incompatible with current models of liberal-socialist spectrums of representitive democracies. It has also never technically succeeded in that handoff... Which is sometimes veiwed as a critical failure point inate to the attempted implementation of the ideology - or as a set of individual failures of the movements who attempted to adopt the ideology in name and fumbled the landing.
There is a lot of interesting history on different forms of socialism!
Colleges didn't exist in communism?
They did, but you got training in whatever the state wanted, not the individual.
How is it different in capitalism? You are forced to get a degree in something you can get a job.
Capitalism doesn't work unless you are rich.
This is not true. At least here in Romania, the issue with colleges under communism was that there were VERY limited slots, so you had to either be the best of the best or have a high up party member in the family or as a close personal friend.
So you are basically agreeing? Not true on paper but in practice you couldn't just get into college, which is what OP claimed.