this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2024
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There is a reason for USB-C extensions not to be part of the standard. They can be bothersome in the best case and dangerous in the worst.

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[–] MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 25 points 11 months ago (7 children)

If you want a more detailed explanation, USB-C is a small connector that was designed primarily for data transfer, extended power range delivery (240w) was essentially hacked on to the standard. Electricity arcing between the contacts on the connector is the biggest challenge with this hack, since the contacts are small and very close together, which could burn out the circuit board and start fires. For EPR to work safely, there needs to be a lot of extra components on the circuit board/female connector side, which there simply isn't enough space for on an f2m extension cable.

As for why USB-C cables are so short, it's simply a matter of physics, carrying high speed data over larger distances would result in higher losses and requires thicker conductors and more shielding, which is why you don't see USB4 Gen3 cables over 1 meter unless they are optical, and longer "charging cables" are only rated at USB 2.0 speeds, because more often than not they don't even have the USB 3.x data pins on their connector.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You are a brilliant woman of many talents, Margot Robbie!

[–] MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's esteemed Academy Award nominated character actress Margot Robbie to you!

Also, thank you.

[–] UnbrokenTaco@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

I would say more like a Harley Quinn.

[–] inriconus@programming.dev 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

It's amazing for a "standard" that there can be so many non-standard ways to do it. Your explanation is great and just reminded me that cable tester tools are a really good idea to have at home. There was one in Kickstarter earlier this year, I think, that was a really smart idea. I don't recall what it was nqmed though. Maybe you have heard of it? I'll see if I can find it.

Regardless, there are some devices that really need a specific type of usb-c cable to function properly and/or not burn the circuitry. (i.e. Nintendo Switch, the original release model (though, they may have fixed it in later hardware revisions))

Edit: Found it! That cable tester that I was referring to was called the BLE CaberQU. I think it is a really neat idea.

[–] Septimaeus@infosec.pub 1 points 11 months ago

Nice! I’ve wanted a tool exactly like that many times. I’ll back it and see.

The closest I could find before were essentially pin to pin continuity checkers, which are useful for telling if a cable is PD only, 2.0 vs 3.x, or has a line break, but most of those can be eyeballed, otherwise metered. So these just checkers just add precision and speed to something you already know how to do.

The runner ups were the (now ubiquitous) inline inductive energy trackers, because they can tell you a bit more about the gauge of the wires in the cable which can be important, especially high amperage 5v like pi 4.B

But to test quality of shielding for high rate data transfer, DP and PCI-E tunneling, etc., the only option was manually user testing with adequately powerful devices.

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 2 points 11 months ago

I'm glad someone is smart cause I sure ain't

[–] fosho@lemmy.ca 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

It's a great explanation. However you have some pretty egregious use of commas that made it a lot more confusing. I had to read it over multiple times to fully understand.

It may seem like nitpicking but these subtle issues end up making it harder to comprehend and overall results in more time and effort for everyone you're trying to inform.

[–] gazter@aussie.zone 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You know you explained a topic pretty damn accurately when the Stranger On The Internet can only use the good ol' "too many commas'" argument to bring you down.

[–] stephen01king@lemmy.zip 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Why are you assuming he's trying to bring the guy down? He could genuinely have a problem parsing the comment and you're here just dismissing his experience.

I didn't know that assuming your experience applies to everyone is generally accepted in Lemmy nowadays, considering the voting ratio.

I don't agree with his point that there are too many commas, but implying that his experience is faked and his comment is made due to malicious intent is just particularly stupid.

[–] gazter@aussie.zone 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My comment was intended more to praise OP than to deride the person who replied. It was probably worded badly. I guess I should have said something more along the lines of 'You know your argument is good when the only fault to be found by internet strangers is too many commas'.

[–] stephen01king@lemmy.zip 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yeah, that actually conveyed your meaning much better than your original wording. I understand what you meant now. That means my comment was way too aggressive for what you wanted to convey, so I will apologize.

[–] seliaste@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 11 months ago

Some languages have a very different usage of comas. Maybe OP's mother tongue is one of those

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[–] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I have this cable: https://www.spigen.com/products/arcwire-usb-c-to-usb-c-cable-pb2202

It's 2 meters long, 240 watts and supports Thunderbolt 4/USB 4 (40 gbps).

I couldn't test the 240 watts charging as I don't have any device pulling more than 100 watts, but the Thunderbolt 4 part definitely works.

Apple sells a 3 meter Thunderbolt 4 cable (albeit limited to 100 watts of power) that isn't optical either (I think there's some special circuitry in the plugs though).

[–] MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You're right. Those are active cables which I forgot to mention earlier that have special circuits that amplify signals, but are also a lot more expensive as a result.

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[–] flames5123@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

$90 for a cable and it’s not even braided is wild to me.

[–] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Braiding doesn't really increase the cable quality per se though..?

It's $90 because it has fairly thick wiring and as Margot said is likely an active cable (with a chip in the plug). It's actually fairly cheap considering the feature set.

[–] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

A shielded braid reduce the noise on the data lines and gives a better signal integrity. So it doesn't increase the quality of the material, but increase the signal to noise ratio (SNR), which is very important for data transmission.

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[–] stoicmaverick@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I prefer not braided. Both for cables and hair. More of a ponytail kinda guy myself.

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[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'll have you know that I've been using a 2m extension on my deck power supply for a while and haven't had any fires to speak of. Almost none actually.

[–] Pringles@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago (12 children)

Anybody care to sum this up for people who can’t watch videos?

[–] WraithGear@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (11 children)

So a standard cable needs to be chipped to show its rating to the device, its not that the device can pull what it wants or can get, but the cable itself tells it what it can supply. Extension cables can’t do that, because it doesn’t know what it’s plugged into, and that would be if they even bothered to put a chip in. They instead piggy back off the chip for the main cable. The problem comes when you you have a 240 watt cable hooked up to a cheap 120 watt cable, with the device being told it can push 240, and starts to super heat the extension cable

[–] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Brilliant thanks

5 sentences that inexplicably need a 9 minute video to say

Fuck YouTube

[–] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

Haven't you heard about Raid Shadow Legends?

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[–] mannycalavera@feddit.uk 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

This is what AI says about this video:

The video is about the dangers of using USB-C extension cords. The narrator explains that USB-C extension cords are not officially certified by the USB Implementers Forum, which means that they are not guaranteed to be safe or reliable. He also explains that USB-C extension cords can be dangerous because they can overload the power supply of the device that they are connected to. This can cause the device to overheat and even catch fire. The narrator recommends that people avoid using USB-C extension cords altogether. Here are some of the specific dangers of using USB-C extension cords:

  • They can overload the power supply of the device that they are connected to.
  • They can cause the device to overheat and even catch fire.
  • They can degrade the performance of the device.
  • They can be unreliable.

The narrator also explains that some USB-C extension cords have a label that says "USB 2.0 low speed devices can only work with one side of the ultra high rate extension cables interface." This means that the USB 2.0 connection is only available on one side of the cable. This can be a problem if you need to connect a USB 2.0 device to the cable.

The narrator recommends that people avoid using USB-C extension cords altogether. If you must use one, he recommends that you use a high-quality cable from a reputable manufacturer. You should also make sure that the cable is rated for the power requirements of the device that you are connecting to it. Overall, this video is a helpful resource for anyone who is considering using a USB-C extension cord. It provides important information about the dangers of using these cables and how to avoid them.

[–] Boozilla@sh.itjust.works 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You're a bold one. Lemmy hates videos and AI both.

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[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

USB-C somehow managed to be the worst "standard." Hopefully the next big USB port doesn't allow for so much variance. I don't see why a specific wattage and data transfer rate isn't included in the specification. I can scarcely believe they managed to standardize it so well that I can plug the wrong cord into a port and break something.

[–] smeenz@lemmy.nz 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Per the video, the usb-c connector on the cable has a chip that communicates the maximum current that it can safely pass. By plugging it into a lesser rated usb extension cable, that assertion is now wrong, potentially dangerously wrong if enough current is sent that the wires in the extension overheat.

[–] VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

How does this apply to a usb-c-to-headphone-port adapter, if at all? If someone's using one to regain access to a 3.5mm audio jack, are any risks posed?

[–] AmbitiousProcess@piefed.social 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's not an extension cable, but an adapter, thus it's not a problem in this case. It's a cable that can convert the data from an audio jack to something that can go through USB-C, not a cable that simply extends a USB-C cable. The cable can almost certainly handle any amount of power and data that an audio jack would pass through it, no problem, even if it were a USB-C to USB-C extension cable, and not an adapter.

The problem arises when someone tries using a higher-spec USB-C cable with a lower-spec USB-C extension cable, such as using a 240W charger with the lower-spec USB-C extension cable in the middle that can only do 120W. In that case, it would pass more electricity through than the lower-spec cable could handle, and it would overheat.

The amount of data and power from an audio jack is simply too small to overwhelm practically any USB-C cable or adapter that exists, thus it's not an issue.

[–] VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 months ago

Thanka much for this explanation!

[–] MrAlternateTape@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

Usually if a thing is not allowed, there is a good reason for it. Unfortunately many people seem to ignore that because they don't know or understand the reason.

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