You can't call your country a civilized society when capital punishment is still enforced.
this post was submitted on 24 Dec 2024
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Exactly, it's not about the broken people doing unspeakable things.
It's about stooping to their level as a society, about being loathsome enough to demand an eye for an eye instead of being compassionate in the face of cruelty.
Honestly, you show me a serial killer, and I'll show you someone who almost certainly has clinical sociopathy in addition to other diagnoses which means they belong in a maximum security psychiatric hospital for the rest of their lives out of public safety, just like the sociopaths who hoard extreme levels of wealth to buy politicians and hurt/murder people through policy beyond their single vote for private profit who are clearly mentally ill should be.
The thing about the US though, is that we are a bloodthirsty, vengeful, schaudenfreude addicted society.
I've heard my fellow Americans wish death upon the homeless without the slightest bit of shame, whose only crime was failing to be good capital batteries, on the basis of lowering property values.
It's true no society should be judged by their elite citizens, but by how we treat our prisoners. By that metric, there are few societies lower than ours with the world's largest, often for profit prison population provided virtually no rehabilitation and literally set up to fail when they get out.
We are a monstrous nation. Not the only monstrous nation by any means, but up there with the worst by the scale of cruelty inflicted.
Eh fuck those guys anyways.
Sorry, no. Disagree. There should not be exceptions to basic human rights no matter how terrible those people are. We have no problem keeping other people just as bad in federal supermax prison for life, and, in fact, that's where everyone else who got their sentences commuted will be going.
No state should have the power of life and death over its citizenry and exceptions to rules are not a good idea.
Fundamentally, I agree with you here, but on the way to getting there we are going to have to accept an ever-diminishing set of truly heinous crimes that merit execution until none do. That's just the nature of change here.
I'm certainly not losing any sleep over these guys. I hope we eventually get there, but fixing capital punishment for terrorists and mass murder is small potatoes compared to the outrages of the next four years.
That being said, Mangione being accused of terrorism sort of lays the fundamental flaw bare. When the government wants to kill someone, they will find a way to charge a capital crime for as long as they exist, so they must eventually be done away with.
Exactly. Mangione's crime should legally be no different than the many other first-degree murders that are committed all over the U.S. every day. Almost none of them get the death penalty for it. But they have found a way to kill him for it.
They will always find a way when there is a way.
we are going to have to accept an ever-diminishing set of truly heinous crimes that merit execution until none do
...no? We could just... not execute them? Like we're doing now? They're already in prison, we could literally just keep doing that
There isn't the political will. Yeah it needs to be fixed. But we need to realize that even a lot of Democrats support capital punishment. It's going to take a long time. I agree but I'm being pragmatic. It's just not something enough people want to change.
If these guys got shot mid crime by cops nobody would have bat an eye. These guys are legitimate monsters, there is zero room for doubt of their guilt, and there is zero benefit to society keeping them alive.
You do not speak for me.
No state should have the power of life and death over its citizenry and exceptions to rules are not a good idea.
That’s part of the definition of a state: monopoly over organized violence. Even in states where the death penalty is abolished the state still reserves the power to use the military to put down uprisings and that sort of thing. Plus in pretty much all states the officers of the state (the police) have the power to use lethal force. Without that power an outside group could take over by attacking the police.
This. I cannot conceive of a world where everyone peacefully coexists and nobody uses violence to extract advantage (or revenge) from others. That's fantasy. A warlord will always arise and in time such authority legitimizes and becomes a state. The best we can do is to democratize that authority and spread power around as widely as possible.
Those with remaining sentences are Robert D. Bowers, 52, who was sentenced in 2023 for killing 11 people during the Three of Life Synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh in 2018; Dylann Roof, 30, who was sentenced in 2017 for killing nine people during a white-supremacist motivated mass shooting in South Carolina; and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 31, who was sentenced in 2015 for carrying out the Boston Marathon bombing.
So what you're saying is Trump is probably going to pardon at least 2 of them.
That's Ambassador Roof, to you.
Only 2? You think he cares about Boston and Bostonians that much?
Yeah this is some top tier trolling.