this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2026
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cross-posted from: https://piefed.zip/c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world/p/1758477/using-fascist-technology-to-fight-fascism-still-promotes-fascist-technology

Using fascist technology to fight fascism still promotes fascist technology.

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[–] queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone 82 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Fascists don't create, they corrupt. Technology is neither fascist nor antifascist, those labels only make sense in the context of humans.

Be thoughtful about the services you use, the money you spend, and the data you entrust to others. Do your best to understand your tools as fully as you can. Strive to help others and do no harm, in your immediate impact and in your downstream effects. Don't trust to heuristics like labeling certain technologies "fascist"; they are not and the more non-fascists there are who understand technology, the better equipped we will be to fight fascism.

[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 31 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

I can see the argument for local or at least open source models, but most people who use LLMs are using ChatGPT and other Big Tech LLM services, which are clearly run by fascists.

[–] queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone 30 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Yes, but it is very important to distinguish between LLMs, which are amoral math, and OpenAI et al, which are corporations run by fascists that offer LLM-based public surveillance / disinformation platforms. There is no technology on earth that cannot be bent to malign purpose if malicious people are inclined to do so. LLMs are just the popular useful technology du jour.

[–] zd9@lemmy.world 23 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Thank you. I just wrote this in another comment:

I've been an AI researcher for 12 years now. I work primarily in climate and environment, and right now I'm using AI for super resolution of wind field predictions, to better forecast wildfire spread. Prior to this project I was using AI and remote sensing to monitor and predict wheat crop health in northern India to feed into various food security monitoring systems (e.g. FEWSNET). There are millions of AI use cases that tangibly improve the world.

At the same time, those same underlying principles of AI are being used to develop tools to better surveil people, control them, and profit off of them so the tech fascists can gain even more control. Both things can be true. It's the billionaires who are funding these massive investments that are evil. It's always the billionaires.

Steel can be used to construct buildings and can also be used to construct weapons. You wouldn't say steel is evil right?

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[–] Fawkes@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I got called unethical today for using a small-scale locally hosted open model trained on Wikipedia and Stack Exchange. A LOT of the anti-AI people are universalists that have decided carte blanche that it is an evil technology and everyone who uses it is bad.

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[–] mrmaplebar@fedia.io 7 points 1 week ago

Even most of of the local and "open" models are exploiting the work of others by training off unethically sourced data without even so much as consent.

There is such a thing as ethical AI, but damn near zero people are doing it that way.

[–] OrganicMustard@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There are definitely fascist technologies out there, that's why we can say don't build the fucking torment nexus.

Mass surveillance, torture devices, hostile architecture, the slanted toilet, the panopticon, those can only be used for evil.

The torment nexus isn't a discrete thing. You can't make thumbscrews without screws. Are the screws evil? If not, when does the composition of components become evil? I don't think LLMs are evil for the same reason I don't think thumbscrews are evil in and of themselves. Thumbscrews, like LLMs, lack the capacity for evil. It's the people who turn technology against their fellow humans that I hold as my enemy, not the trappings of their mischief. Remove them from the equation, and the torment nexus becomes so much harmless scrap, ready to be beaten into plowshares.

[–] undefinedTruth@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don't know man, surveillance tech seems pretty fascist to me.

[–] queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

surveillance networks are made of computers and sensors, which are made of chips and wires. I don't think chips and wires are fascist, I don't think sensors and computers are fascist. I think the purpose to which they are put is the fascist part, and the purpose is pure human.

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[–] wedge@multiverse.soulism.net 7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Critical thinking is a rare commodity on social media. The the AI hate is basically lemmy's version of facebooks anti-vaxxers.

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[–] zd9@lemmy.world 53 points 1 week ago (2 children)

AI is not evil. AI is being used to find cancer cures, fusion research, climate and environment research, materials science, literally every possible industry. It's also being used to control and surveil people, and profit more from every corner of life. Both are true of AI.

The part that's evil is that the people with the most money who are funding the large AI investments want to use AI to support their tech fascist desires. As usual, it's not the thing itself, it's the billionaires. It's ALWAYS the billionaires. They are the evil.

[–] RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works 27 points 1 week ago (16 children)

LLMs don't cure cancer. That's the kind of AI everyone refers to these days. Not ML projects.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 8 points 1 week ago

No, but I believe machine translation is now powered mainly by LLMs, which is a damn useful application of the technology.

I was surprised to learn recently that a few of my friends pay for Claude to help with personal projects and things like that. This particular AI tech is quite new so it's surely too early to declare axiomatically that it has no uses. That sounds like an emotional reaction to me.

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[–] Ptsf@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Stupid af take tbh, especially the commentary. Tools are just tools. Stop stupidly turning them into your boogeymen. Technology, scientific advancement, and evolving knowledge do not care for who contributed to them. Otherwise just get off your programmable computer brother because the first one was made by literal nazis (Konrad Z3) along with a huge laundry list of other technologies fascists have developed. Political ideology and tech do not go hand and hand just because the tech is being used as a tool to facilitate the former.

[–] Susaga@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Nobody who uses AI treats it like a tool, they treat it like an employee they can claim credit for. And most tools aren't actively detrimental to the user to the point of proven intelligence drops, lawsuits and environmental destruction. Also, the enemy charges you money to use it.

The only person who benefits from AI is the person selling it. So why are you trying to defend it?

[–] zd9@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Respectfully, you have no idea what you're talking about. I've been an AI researcher for 12 years now. I work primarily in climate and environment, and right now I'm using AI for super resolution of wind field predictions, to better forecast wildfire spread. Prior to this project I was using AI and remote sensing to monitor and predict wheat crop health in northern India to feed into various food security monitoring systems (e.g. FEWSNET). There are millions of AI use cases that tangibly improve the world.

At the same time, those same underlying principles of AI are being used to develop tools to better surveil people, control them, and profit off of them so the tech fascists can gain even more control. Both things can be true. It's the billionaires who are funding these massive investments that are evil. It's always the billionaires.

Steel can be used to construct buildings and can also be used to construct weapons. You wouldn't say steel is evil right?

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[–] Ptsf@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (24 children)

Brother you can run that shit local and all of your claims have so many asterisks attached that they're essentially pointless. Everything you claimed is entirely true of base computers no ai. Hell even just internet access has been shown to have all the same negative effects. And I'm defending it because I'm not stupid and it's a useful technology. Run your shit local. The tech bro goons don't own the technology.

[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The tech bro goons don’t own the technology.

They do own ChatGPT and other commercial LLM services, though, which is what most AI users use, and they made the hardware to run local AI models prohibitively expensive for a lot of people.

[–] Ptsf@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Cool so don't use chatgpt and tools have costs? Idk what you want? Free compute and a lolly? Like I don't disagree that those tech bros fucking suck and I personally don't use their service but I'm not going to turn an entire technology into a boogeyman just because some fuckwhits with too much money and not enough empathy are fucking about. The underlying technology is solid and useful as a tool, regardless of the hardware you have. You can run local models that produce useful results on even a raspberry pi. It does not matter who contributed to it to assess it as such.

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[–] Fredselfish@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 week ago

My fucking company mailed me a flyer today to remind that I got access to a AI fitness trainer that is totally free just download an app to my phone. I so fucking pissed ripped in tiny fucking pieces. I fucking loath how they just blatantly assume we want use AI for everything. The very thing that if they could would replace us with it.

[–] dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago

Fine i'll steal code the old fashioned way

[–] SleveMcDichael@programming.dev 14 points 1 week ago

As much as I hate "AI" myself, rhetoric like this does more harm to movements resisting "AI" than to help them.

[–] HeHoXa@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] MidsizedSedan@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Batman uses AI too (Alfred Intelligence)

[–] HeHoXa@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 week ago

That is a very good point, Master Wayne. Thank you for calling me out. Going forward, I will try to avoid such mistakes.

[–] GeorgimusPrime@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

This is so meta because Frank Miller's Dark Knight is a child abusing fascist.

[–] anzo@programming.dev 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I believe this discussion is important, just the other day I was sad about people colluding inference and training like if both were having the same carbon footprint. I am not defending Sam Altman or anyone else. But we need to look at the facts for what they're. Running a quantized local model, accepting latency and all, can make your use of LLMs as low as playing video games. I already said that in the past, and I only got downvoted. Maybe because everyone is hurt bout this technology, which is having detrimental consequences. I am not saying there aren't any problems... but I am accepting the world for what it is, as GPT4 has said ~3 years ago: confetti has left the cannon.

So, we need to deal with this reality. The training done on data like open source code, or even copyrighted materials, will always be a debt.

Just like colonialism. And yet, we are not hating each other for "simple" stuff like eating chocolate or drinking coffee which is most often than not unethically sourced. OR the minerals that make our electronic devices..

Again, it's not that I am vouching to ignore the issues. But I rather have us take the conversation as a debate or dilemma. Not just start attacking one another.

This all seems like that caricature of a vegan that hates the vegetarians for eating some cheese.

Look at the common ground. Here, on lemmy, more often than anywhere else, we have a big chunk of values and ethics in common.

[–] harrison_fnord@reddthat.com 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Every time someone fires a confetti cannon I have to stay one or two hours longer after closing and clean that shit up. Every piece of it.

I do not want It everywhere and it can be a hazard If it goes in the wrong places.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Fighting local models is playing right into enshittification, though.

They WANT people to be scared of "AI." They want people to keep talking about it as this existential anthropomorphized danger, not a tool theyve enshittified.

Because the thing that keeps Altman/Modi up at night is the proliferation of trifty, dirt cheap open weights models. Ones presented as tools, not intelligence. And every bit people rail against them is more ammunition to regulate those open models away, so they have a monopoly.

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