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A collection of some classic Lemmy memes for your enjoyment
Copy image? Nope, here’s the link instead.
Why are we sending someone to "Extra Hell" for making an improved image format that has better compression and is an overall improvement over all 3 of the existing formats it replaces (jpeg, png, gif)?
Shouldn't this apply to ~~everyone~~ the companies who refused to adopt it, thus breaking every normal image workflow? (Same thing can be said about JXL)
Edit: fix vague wording
Because they have a poor user experience with an OS and applications that have chosen not to support it properly, and blame the image format for this
Because it's Google trying to control not just everything ELSE about the internet, as if that wasn't enough, but even what image formats we use.
If PNG and JPEG aren't good enough, which they often are, by the way, JPEG XL is right there.
-- Frost
I'd say the knowledge about webp's benefits is not mainstream at all, I learned about it last week from a random YouTube video. So when people download a file that isn't working as expected they don't know who to be mad at so they make memes like this.
I have comments about your first question, but they're mostly stupid on my end. I think the problem for most is related to your 2nd question. Google is doing it's google thing where they do a lot to force adoption with a goal of doing nothing to support it. Combine with a general distrust of Google.
It's not an improvement over PNG.
but it has an optional lossless mode that no one uses
No one uses it and even if they did, you'd never know since there isn't a .webl or .webpl to differentiate lossless.
You know a PNG in lossless, you know a jpg is lossy. webp should just be assumed lossy 100% of the time.
Kind of a tangent, but while the png format uses lossless compression, you do not know that the .png you have in front of you is lossless from the filename; image softwares can and do support preprocessing an image with lossy algorithms to improve the file size.
This is sort of unlike flac for audio -- it is technically also possible, but hardly anyone would do it, since the only reason to use flac is for lossless compression.
I get the impression that .png is used alongside .jpg as a general image format, although i don't really know.
You also don't know if your .png file has an alpha channel or not -- might have been made without one.
How is that the formats fault? Your browser sucks.
My pain isn't in the browser, it's with other apps that are still playing catch-up.
A lot of apps have added support now, but there are still edge cases. Animated webp being one. If i send that in a messaging app, usually all the other person sees is the first frame.
It's absolutely not the fault of the format, I agree, but still a cause of compatibility headaches.
Well, gif format existed before 1998 and the Web was being built with it, whereas now the format exists when things have already been built. It sounds like a demonstration of feature creep. “Oh, so now we want webp instead of gif? Ugh.”
webp will always be funny to me because it was made exclusively by Google to reduce lossy file size for faster HTTP transfer, but then when JPEGXL was released with better lossy compression and the ability to load graphical data progressively by quality instead of line by line bitstream, Google switched to AVIF instead and doubled down on even more lossy compression because they just want to save cloud costs and don't care about image quality.
AVIF has a lossless mode. Although nobody cares for it, the slightly lossy is fine. It's adjustable just like JPEG is adjustable.
Also, it's really annoying to convert since ffmpeg can't do it yet, but the two major browsers support AV1 video, with alpha, in a .avif that you can shove into an tag. It's basically just a video. But animated. And transparent. It also works on Discord web now (but not mobile). AND you can set repetition count, if you really want. Can't show the masterpiece I've made before with that since it would be way out of topic, although here's an HD example with the animation from here:
demo
Ironically, the creators of the damn browser didn't know that it's possible and used a .webm. Well, the bourgeoisie division of the organization that makes the browser, of course. The @redhat.com emails, lol. Also, the metadata for the .webm says "ezgif". Oh welp. And yes, the greenscreen leaking at the edges was already there.
Command (bourne shell): ffmpeg -c:v libvpx-vp9 -i pop-up-1480.webm -strict -1 -f yuv4mpegpipe -pix_fmt yuva444p - | avifenc --stdin pop-up-1480.avif (-c:v needed to get ffmpeg to read the transparency).
File size:
.webm: 540KiB
.avif: 486KiB
.gif: 6.2MiB
GIF command used for comparison: gifski pop-up-1480.webm -H 832 -r 33.3333333333333333333333 -Q 100 --extra -o pop-up-1480.gif, 100% to match original quality somewhat
spoiler
It also supports HDR. In year 2060, when the @redhat.com people finally get HDR out for everyone, we will have lazer eye """gifs"""
spoiler spoiler
Users of custom clients and netsurf (via custom frontend) and such will be complaining about this just like about OP's repost is complaining about WebP.
WebP has all the functionality of jpg, gif, and png with better compression ratios.
As someone who has edited videos and had to convert WebPs every time I accidentally downloaded them, no they do not.
There's a difference between whether or not a file format supports features and a software supporting the file format. A tractor can have loads of features and still not be the right fit for you if it does fit in your barn. Doesn't mean the tractor doesn't have those features. DDR5 can be better then DDR4 and yet not all motherboards support it. It is trivial to convert from webp to the file format you need for your unique situation. Its supported baseline by browsers and use on the web is its best case. I make websites that allow people to customize SOLIDWORKS CAD files. SOLIDWORKS doesn't support webp: I still use it on the website wherever possible and if someone uploads in webp I just convert to jpg before inserting into SOLIDWORKS.
The person who belongs in extra hell is whoever decided not to implement support for heic natively in Windows.
Oddly enough, microsoft decided that. They are also apart of the group that owns the license to it, which includes apple and sony.
Licensing bullshit
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/8ptbss/comment/e0dv1d4/?context=3
https://www.zdnet.com/article/if-vlc-can-ship-a-free-dvd-player-why-cant-microsoft/
Explains it well.
Tldr: VLC is in France and doesn't have to respect copyright laws over software while Microsoft does and has to pay money for codecs per install.
You used to be able to open an heic in the native windows 11 photo viewer and go to "save as" and resave it as a jpg, but they removed it. So I guess its deliberate.
Actually I would say the the one who goes to extra health should be whoever at Apple made the decision to use the patent encumbered HEIC format as the default for iPhone photos.
There are plenty of open picture formats that do the same thing without a patent tax.
Windows supports something other than BMP?
I never had problems with webp. Neither on android nor on my computer. I can copy and paste the images without problems. What kind of software are you guys using?
Sometimes blorp had problems downloading .webp images, but I'm pretty sure the dev fixed it; i haven't seen those errors in a long time.
You use shitty app it is not fault of format
I agree with the comic. Saving a webp as an actually useful file format is an extra annoying step.
Half the time it works. Half the time it doesn't. Idk what the determining factor is but I've just got in the habit of doing screenshots. Which I then still have to open another program to paste and save.
What even was the reason for this awful file type ?
... What was ever wrong about webp? As far as I know it gives slightly better compression than jpg at similar quality
The biggest issue AFAIK has been that certain OS vendors didn't allow their users to enjoy it while the internet went on to use a new tool, so they got a lot of broken images
That is your vendors fault, not webp
Finally someone said it
It was only ever an issue for me back when it was new and next to nothing supported it yet.
That isn't the case anymore, except maybe here on Lemmy where by default, animated images don't properly upload. Doesn't even matter the format; webp, gif, mp4, etc. They don't work out of the box here; they embed fine if hosted elsewhere, tho.
WebM works with image-rs (as long as you don't exceed your home instance's upload size limits).
I can't guarantee that every client can view it properly
that's on the client's author
but it'll show up in the Lemmy Web UI.
$ wget https://gnuplotting.org/figs/bessel.gif
$ ffmpeg -i bessel.gif bessel.webm
Try downloading that and then uploading it in a comment to to your own instance; it should work unless pawb.social limits the size.
Skill issue
?format=jpeg
Pin that to your clipboard
Use it with FoundryVTT all the time, its great for reducing size without losing much quality.
.webm files never embed properly for me in messaging apps. It's been years, and apparently this is an unsolvable issue for the likes of Microsoft Teams (although at my new job I use Slack now, so I haven't tried it in a while).
