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235
Young Brits want to rejoin the EU (www.dw.com)
submitted 1 day ago by CAVOK@lemmy.world to c/europe@feddit.org
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[โ€“] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 7 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

I remember before Brexit, I was still on Facebook. That's been so long I struggle to remember exactly how Facebook worked; mostly you were posting among your own coterie of friends but some places were more public. I remember posting my own "You really don't want to do that" on the subject of Brexit, and some idiot Brit came back with "you yanks don't know what it's like having your laws made for you by politicians you didn't elect 500 miles away."

Motherfucker I live almost exactly that far from Washington DC, out of 435 congressman and 100 senators I get to vote for exactly three of them. The difference between me and the average citizen of the UK is I understand what it means to be a citizen of a federation.

In the words of my grandfather: "You made your bed, now eat it."

[โ€“] creamfresh@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

But you obviously don't understand what a federation is (hint: the EU ain't one).

[โ€“] TwodogsFighting@lemdro.id -3 points 8 hours ago

Go fuck yourself.

[โ€“] JensSpahnpasta@feddit.org 25 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (3 children)

I really think that it's time to stop bashing the Brits. Esp. those younger brits. There are many Pro-Europeans who got totally fucked by the older generation. Many of those older Pro-Brexit voters do not have to deal with border controls and bad job prospects, because they are dead. No one who is currently under 28 was even allowed to vote.

So stop the senseless bashing and let's try to work together to bring the UK back.

[โ€“] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 14 points 14 hours ago

I am happy to have them back, but they should get zero special treatment this time. Full benefits, but also full financial responsibility and ideally Euro integration.

[โ€“] HK65@sopuli.xyz 8 points 21 hours ago

Trump and Brexit was 10 years ago.

I feel old.

[โ€“] Squizzy@lemmy.world 5 points 21 hours ago

They need to take the euro and move to pr-st voting.

They had a great deal and fucked it, letting them inwith Farage athe door is disrespectful to us in europe.

[โ€“] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 6 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

Sadly, it'll take years for the UK to rejon the EU, and only if there's a government that actually wants it too.

There are unbelievable levels of bureaucracy in the entire process. Tons of topics to negotiate, requirements to meet and verify.

There's at least one country that will become a new EU member before the UK rejoins. Possibly 2 or 3, depending on how the others do.

It's just sad how much time and resources were wasted because of this idiotic move. So many Brits could be living considerably better lives, but instead they have to deal with this shit for like 20-30 years in total. But hey, the politicians got their votes, ruled the country for a while, and they're set for life.

[โ€“] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 13 hours ago

and of course, no special treatment this time.

[โ€“] Eximius@lemmy.world 7 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (3 children)

Decades*

That's how long it takes.

Not only would UK not get any special deal, but they would have to align in terms of anti-corruption, monetary policy, infrastructure, health, food, commodity, energy sector planning.

[โ€“] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Facilitating corruption is the biggest single component of the UK economy, ain't no way its ever meeting those requirements.

[โ€“] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 4 points 18 hours ago

Very true. It'd have to completely revise most of its policies. As an existing member, it could have negotiated special terms or just stalled, but as a candidate, it has to follow requirements to the letter.

Kind of like an existing employee at a company can slack off or make silly mistakes, but a candidate on an interview cannot, because they just won't get accepted.

[โ€“] Quantillion@mstdn.io 1 points 18 hours ago

@Eximius @DupaCycki
Which is why I presume this process is already ongoing but not publicly, allowing dissatisfaction with Brexit to grow some more before Rejoin becomes a published govt policy.
But yeah, it'll take decades anyway.

[โ€“] Tryenjer@lemmy.world 2 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

The UK should never rejoin until it abolishes its first past the post system.

[โ€“] atro_city@fedia.io 1 points 3 hours ago

Exactly. Fuck that system.

[โ€“] Buffalox@lemmy.world 77 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (28 children)

Not gonna happen anytime soon.
And there is no majority for it in UK when the reality of rejoining is explained.

  1. Give up the British pound and switch to Euro.
  2. Pay full price, the old discount membership is not an option.
  3. Dismantle FPP elections and House of lords which are both utterly undemocratic, and cause political instability.
  4. Being willing to allow EU to become even tighter (may imply giving up an additional bit of sovereignty) to be able to work with more new member states, and avoid a Hungary situation in the future.

There is a majority in general that is for reentering, but when the above points are stated, support in the general population drops to about 13%!!

It's probably higher among younger people, but without mentioning the above points, no poll on reentering is worth anything, because they are polling a pipedream.

[โ€“] yakko@feddit.uk 10 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I'm a British voter and I see no deal-breakers.

[โ€“] Buffalox@lemmy.world 5 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

Good, IMO they shouldn't be. ;)
But to be fair I forgot what for some is the biggest deal breaker, which is the Schengen agreement that allows free travel for EU citizens within EU. Which of course again IMO is another benefit, not a drawback. But propaganda uses it to stir up xenophobia.

As an EU citizen I too don't see any problems in the above points. Getting a better democracy would seem to me to be a HUGE bonus. But sometimes Brits are a bit stubborn, and they want special treatment because they believe in British exceptionalism.

UK always considered itself separate from continental Europe, and somewhat superior to the rest of Europe. Which for decades was true, because UK were first to industrialize, and was immensely wealthy from having colonies and the world reserve currency.
But when that broke down after WW2, UK declined quickly and became a "normal" country. But the mentality never really followed the reality.

At least that's how I understand it.
But maybe the steep drop in support when the points are presented isn't so much because they are against them, as maybe they don't quite understand them, or think UK can get a better deal.
What for instance does it mean to switch from GBP to EUR? That's probably not so clear for everybody.

[โ€“] yakko@feddit.uk 3 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

I'm not a finance wonk, but I don't think the UK does anything with pounds that can't be done with euros. Except maybe tax evasion? lol

[โ€“] Buffalox@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

To be fair the British Pound does have a long and "proud" history, as the most significant currency in the world. And London being the financial center of the world.
The pride of its past history will to some degree be lost, like losing the last remnant from when UK was the strongest and richest global Empire. It's like losing a bit of history and national identity.

[โ€“] yakko@feddit.uk 2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I do try not to let pride be my downfall; national pride doubly so. Being a British and American citizen by birth has pretty well beaten it out of me.

[โ€“] Buffalox@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

That's very wise, but pride is a bitch, it's hard to swallow. So I think many will not think like you.
I'm from Denmark, and even I would feel a little sad to see the British Pound disappear.

[โ€“] Quantillion@mstdn.io 2 points 16 hours ago

@yakko @Buffalox
I think that exception is the one big fly in the ointment! Especially as the City of London depends on it to, um, "manage" the flows of billions of $ยฃโ‚ฌ++. ๐Ÿ˜

[โ€“] huey_m@piefed.social 31 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

They really didn't grasp at all the sweetheart deal they had with the EU... other countries would have killed for that.

It reminds me so much of the Americans complaining about their position in NATO and the "world policeman" that they fought tooth and nail to get because of the huge amounts of soft power it grants in negotiations and generally shaping world policy.

The irony of a Republican working to undo that... Kissinger's gotta be able to power a small country with how fast he's spinning. Ultimately, good for the world in the end, but another pretty hilarious example of a nation misinterpreting a boon as an albatross around the neck and shooting themselves in the foot by getting rid of it lol. Rhymes so much with Brexit.

[โ€“] Buffalox@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

Yes, the privileged tend to think they are somehow entitled to their privileges.
I guess both UK and USA have been fucking around too much, and are in the find out phase now.

[โ€“] Squizzy@lemmy.world 3 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Point 4 has something in the works for 65% of countries representing 75% of the population or something like that. Unanimity is difficult with growing pools.

The other three are chefs kiss though.

[โ€“] Buffalox@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago

The problem is that we need a mechanism to stop a single country to hold back all of EU for years.
I think most agree on that. Problem is that it probably requires to take a way a bit of sovereignty to achieve that.
So it has to be done very carefully, to protect the rights of individual countries.
As it is it has worked extremely well, except for the situation with Hungary that were traitors within EU that supported Russia over EU.

[โ€“] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Canada will join EU before UK does.

[โ€“] Buffalox@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

As things are going it is not impossible. But Canada still rely on USA as their most significant trading partner, and EU membership would dramatically complicate that relationship.

[โ€“] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

EU membership would dramatically complicate that relationship.

Threatening to annex Canada and economically attacking dramatically complicated that relationship.

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[โ€“] Blackmist@feddit.uk 5 points 21 hours ago

I'm 46, I'm not young!

[โ€“] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 3 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Well, Britain has had the same foreign policy for the past 500 years. Create a disunited Europe.

[โ€“] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

Not completely true, they were immune to a lot of continental issues so they could just wait until they were ready and Europe (mostly France) wasn't. They could have a non interference policy anytime something went wrong. (see 1930s)

[โ€“] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 1 points 14 hours ago

Sorry, this is actually a quote from an old comedy series called "Yes, Minister".

[โ€“] atro_city@fedia.io 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Please, no. The UK held the EU back. They'd had to change their political system first. We don't need them pushing Chat Control and other crap in the EU too.

[โ€“] MrKoyun@lemmy.world 34 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Look no further than the EU to push chat control by themselves.

[โ€“] atro_city@fedia.io 11 points 1 day ago

Doesn't mean we need to invite another country that's pro total surveillance.

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